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ORIGINAL MESSAGE
NAME: Chris Mungovan
DATE: 29 February 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
A Quiz: Who said the following? 1) Two sides? 2) The book's wrong ! 3) Get your gear and go? 4) Balance of power? 5) On old olympus towering tops a french and german ate some hops? Answers soon. Though why I should remember such trivia after all this time is strange, and there's more!.
1st REPLY
NAME: Ian Sadler
DATE: 02 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Former pupil 1951-58
Answers: 1. Two sides was EHJ's of issuing 50 lines. 2. This was R M C0cks' (geography) standard complaint. How that man got away with teaching geography simply by reading the text books to us with one eye whilst marking a pile of books with the other I shall never understand. He also had a way of making the word what last about 10 seconds! Can't help with the rest, but I'm sure our age group all know who said "remind me in the gym next time!.
2nd REPLY
NAME: Martyn Day
Then & NowDATE: 02 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Inmate 1956-1963
I know two of the answers - but to maintain the suspense I won't say who said what.... Mr C0cks - Geography Teacher, Mr Wakelyn - History Teacher. I await the outcome with interest..
3rd REPLY
NAME: Stephen Giles
DATE: 09 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Attended 1957-1964
Yes, I'd agree with what's been stated so far. I remember RM C0cks asking the name of the first steam engine to Geoff Lindsey-Neale (sadly no longer with us), Geoff replied 'Thomas the Tank Engine' after which C0cks went completely ballistic charged across the room, picked Geoff up and threw him out of the room - couldn't do that today of course! I always remember his Geography lessons when he read from the book whilst marking homework. One of his sayings was - 'has anyone NOT done his homework?' On more than one occasion I retrieved my Geography exercise book after handing it in, completed the homework and replaced the book in the pile. This happened quite frequently, I believe. I also have a vague recollection that Hugh Dent upset RM C0cks on one occasion.<.
4th REPLY
NAME: Vic Coughtrey
Then & NowDATE: 09 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-1959
It seems to be old C0cks who's getting the most recognition in your quiz, Chris. Well, it doesn't surprise me. I've been doing C0cks impressions ever since, when trying to be funny, much as people used to do Goon impressions all the time. One of the C0cks sayings I've kept alive in that way is: "What are you playing with boy? Put it aw-a-a-a-a-y, will you?" Of course, as you all know, the C0cks sayings are nothing without the distinctive voice they were intoned in.
On one occasion, he decided to catch me out when he realised my mind was a long way from his class. "You, boy! What's the name of the river that runs through the centre of London?" Vaguely aware that he'd just asked me some question about rivers and that we'd been somewhere in South America the last time I was paying any attention, I replied "the Amazon, sir". He literally threw the book at me. It hurt..
5th REPLY
NAME: Nigel Wood
DATE: 12 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-1964
One of the quotes is from the amazing R Wingfield. Do you remember C0cks's gown which hung in shreds around him? During one lesson - I do not lie - he ripped off a shred, wetted it at the sink in the corner of his room, and cleaned the globe with it (no doubt while still reading from the book). On another occasion he asked us to raise our hands if
The Times was the family newspaper. No doubt us non-
Times-people were regarded with condescension or contempt..
6th REPLY
NAME: Paul Buckland
DATE: 16 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Former pupil
This is definitely the most popular thread and I think we all have 'Sam' stories. By the time I joined QE in 1962 the gown had been replaced and was quite smart. However I do remember on one occasion during a geography lesson he referred to Capt Wanklyn VC. Naturally in boys of 14 this produced a giggle and I remember him hauling me over the desks and throwing me bodily out of the room. Surprisingly that was the end of the matter. No Lines or further punishment. He died very soon after retirement and I went to his memorial service in the Baptist Church in Holborn..
7th REPLY
NAME: Chris Mungovan
DATE: 16 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Inmate 1957 - 64
TIMES UP! Mark your own answers!
1) Earnie Jenkins - 50lines.
2) Sam C0cks, the most valuable lesson he gave was not to trust the printed word.
3) Winkie Wingfield. We waited for the clock to tick the final minute then he would say those magic words with a smile and mutual relief.
4) BOP Wakelin was always banging on about the balance of power but Frosty Winter never mentioned it once!
5) Eric Crofts, Biology, a decent bloke. It was a mnemonic for the cranial nerves (but I should have said picked not ate).
Steve, as I recall, Hugh Dent was so quiet whereas Lindsey-Neal at age 12/13 was cheeky with a big smile. Thomas the Tank would have riled C0cks who did not like small boys, he picked on them. Vic you're right about the voice, it was everything and everyone was doing it. But physical violence never! So Sam C0cks threw books, Bernie Pinnock delighted in taking a full swipe at the hair of anyone with an Elvis quiff and Eric Shirley wore out Gym shoes with beatings not running. 'Well it never did me any harm!'
Here's a couple more questions:
Who would exclaim "Ye (or My) Godfathers !?
Who often said at lunchtime "I'm all behind today". (It could have been a line in a Carry On film).
Who remembers watching the suspension of a black Morris Minor 1000 rise with relief as Sam C0cks and Piggy Purchas would daily get out of it synchronised? There were no human rights then, no political correctness, no racialism. So Mr Dilly was Rastas because of his curly hair and Chang Townsend looked like Chang Ki Shek. We were the children of a generation that had beaten the master race and won WW11, but history lessons stopped at WW1 and where the hell were the Balkans anyway? Climb to the top of that rope and if you fall of there's a slipper waiting.
We were all bright to get there, bright enough to see us through the rough bits and bright enough to succeed thereafter.
Why after all these years have I still got my dreaded school cap ???.
8th REPLY
NAME: Martyn Day
Then & NowDATE: 19 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Inmate 1956-63
Does anyone else remember this story/rumour going round in the late 50's? Apparently Mr C0cks had once been slim and athletic but during the war his metabolism had become radically altered by his work testing new types of dehydrated and concentrated foods. It was this top secret research that had caused him to put on so much weight!.
9th REPLY
NAME: Vic Coughtrey
Then & NowDATE: 19 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-1959
The variant of that story that I heard was that he had been the victim of medical experiments in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp. Despicable specimens that we were, we received this (no doubt false) intelligence with a mixture of amusement and distaste, rather than sympathy. By the way, I have C0cks to thank to this day for the irritation I experience when I hear newsreaders or politicians refer to the majority of a single object: "The book's wrong, boy - you can't say 'the majority of Argentina!'" However, the jury's still out on whether the British Isles can be a singular entity, as in "The British Isles is rich in Coal." This mellifluous line from
The Book may have annoyed the big man, but it got us singing, calypso style (after the lesson, of course) "De British Isles is rich in Coal" - or was that just me? .
10th REPLY
NAME: Nigel Wood
DATE: 19 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1957-64
Like the obnoxious child I was at QE (no comment invited), I know the answers to the last two questions. But back to R M C0cks, an enigma if ever there was... How could an intelligent and cultured man have chosen so cynically to waste his time and our time? I think it must have been some sort of protest - against Jenkins, perhaps, or against being made to 'teach' school geography - totally without intellectual satisfaction in those days. I remember one spat between him and Jenkins, at a practice taken by C0cks for a Summer concert. At one point Jenkins (present as rank-and-file tenor) shouted: "Come on trebles, it's easy!". C0cks, riled by Jenkins' interruption, retorted, "Oh no it's not ....
[short pause] .... if I may say so, Headmaster. If it were easy they'd be able to do it." I liked the logic - and the cheek. You've got to hear it in the C0cks whine/drawl, of course. (Credit for anything correct about the punctuation in this reply belongs to the late S E Alford. My Godfathers!).
11th REPLY
NAME: Nigel Palmer
DATE: 19 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-1962
Just a couple of stories. Eric Crofts uses the word 'fructify' during a Biology lesson. Boy asks 'Sir, what does fructify mean?' Eric: 'Fructify know'. No doubt set up by Eric, but still funny. Sitting in the gallery before assembly C0cks tells me to step over the parapet onto a narrow window sill to close a window. Terrified by the drop and the narrow sill, I refuse. C0cks says "you will do it, boy, now". Even more afraid of him than death I do it. When I climb back shaking convulsively he gives me a look of disgusted contempt..
12th REPLY
NAME: Martyn Day
Then & NowDATE: 22 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: There 1956-63
In the name of completism, my memory of Sam Cock's now famous 'The book is wrong' utterance has it as - 'The book is wrong. I know. I've been there!' This of course is a multi-role statement and Sam applied it to virtually everything, from the Gross Annual Yam Production of Nigeria to the Gigawatt/Hour output of the Hoover Dam. Reading these memories makes me wish that I could go back and shake these men by the hand. How little we really knew them. How poorly we appreciated the way that they put up with us!.
13th REPLY
NAME: Stephen Giles
DATE: 22 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: There 1957-64
Did somebody mention Argentina? We fly to Buenos Aires (BA to the Anglo-Argentine community) on Wednesday, it's a wonderful country and I thoroughly recommend it for a holiday. I don't know if any OEs ended up there. Funnily enough, I joined my wife's Spanish class in a Croydon Tapas Restaurant last night, one of whom used to be a geography teacher, and was quite shocked at Sam C0cks's classroom antics. To this day, I just don't know how he got away with it. I wonder what happened to Hugh Dent? Last time I saw him was on a Circle Line train many years ago. Always had his nose in a book as I remember..
14th REPLY
NAME: Nigel Wood
DATE: 22 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
Regarding Reply 9, how absolutely amazing that you too are haunted by C0cks's strictures on when not to use 'majority'. It's one of two bits of deliberately imparted information I can recall from his 'lessons'. The other is his comment on the remark in the textbook that the author knew a woman of 21 who'd lived all her life in Cornwall and had never seen snow: "Must have been blind.".
15th REPLY
NAME: Chris Mungovan
DATE: 24 March 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
Well, I never intended this thread to become a C0cks tribute. Nevertheless 'compare and contrast' the teaching of a young and earnest Rastas Dilley with the disillusioned Sam C0cks. I remember Hugh Dent saying that he passed Geography O level in spite of C0cks not because of his teaching. I too passed similarly because I borrowed the excercise books and revision notes of Keith Record who had been taught in an efficient and systematic manner in preparation for O levels by Rastas. I had also been taught Geography earlier by Rastas but not for O levels. I enjoyed Rastas's teaching but the only odd recollection I have is that of his opinion that the country was wasting valuable agricultural land by building roads with wide verges. I wonder what both he and Sam C0cks would think of Europe and the Common Agricultural Policy?.
16th REPLY
NAME: David Selway-Hoskins
Then & NowDATE: 30 April 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1955-62
The line I remember best was 'Winky' Wingfield to Cliff Shirley,
who used to fidget a lot, "Shirley, if you were stark naked in a bare
room, you'd find something to fiddle with!" - collapse of 2B Latin
lesson.
We tend to forget when judging our masters in the 50's that the
young ones had left school just in time to serve in the forces in WWII,
then having survived that awful experience, went to University, then on
to try and teach us lot - what a challenge! I recall that Eric Shearley,
'Gabby' Hayes, and Fairbairn were all pilots - and must have been good
ones as they survived!
'Winky' Wingfield was a foot soldier and never let
us forget it, but I do have a signed copy of his book,
The Only Way
Out, which I treasure. I also have a signed copy of EHJ's
Elizabethan
Headmaster 1930-1961 which I also treasure even if he did call me "you
silly little arse" during my interview for admission to the school!
Richard Dilley was a real 'teacher' and meant a lot to me, and I scored a Distinction in A Level geography.
Ken Carter, who was my 1B Form Master and later Leicester House Master,
kicked off my engineering career thanks to contacts he had leading to my
Engineering Apprenticeship at Rolls-Royce.
I would encourage anyone to sign on to the Friends Reunited website to connect with more old school friends and workmates - it's a small world..
17th REPLY
NAME: Nigel Wood
DATE: 18th May 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
Nigel Palmer's C0cks and Crofts stories (Reply 11) prompt some
ramblings about the nature of respect. I'm sure that most people at
the time would have condemned C0cks's window-ledge command as cruel,
stupid and insanely dangerous. But I'm equally certain that some
older adults would have applauded it as character-building - showing
that physical fear can be overcome, and all that. Times have changed.
But what was surely inexcusable by any standards, even then, was
C0cks's 'look of disgusted contempt' (didn't it involve screwing up
his face as if about to cry?) when - failing a public apology -
congratulations were called for. A very strange man.
How different was Eric Crofts, a man always quietly in control,
sporting a tobacco pipe sticking out of his top pocket. Can't rival
the 'fructify' story, but I do remember his throw-away line, when
teaching us about woody stems, that 'bast' isn't an abbreviation. On
another occasion, returning to the lab after a few minutes away, he
asked who'd been putting pennies in nitric acid. Knowing the stick
I'd get if there were a form punishment (I've no illusions about
altruism), I owned up almost immediately. Crofts's response: "Please
don't do it again. It offends the nostrils." A lesser man would have
ranted or given some sort of imposition, or both.
Who (apart from the thread originator) can identify this form? :
Anderson, Barratt, Bullet, Clarke, Cottrell, Craggs, Crausaz, Daly,
Dowding, Edrupt, Frost-Smith, Harkness, Herbert, Humphrey, Hungate,
Layson, Lindsay-Neale, Mantell, Mungovan, Munro, Rainbird, Record,
Scudder, Seale, Steadman, Symonds, Tinson, Wearing, Wood. Forgive
spellings. Anything known about any of these (except the last)? [I
know that Rainbird and Steadman died tragically young]..
18th REPLY
NAME: Vic Coughtrey
Then & NowDATE: 18 May 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-1959
Could this possibly be the same Rainbird whose form I was in or a while, Nigel? Perhaps a younger brother, as I've never heard of any of the others you list, and your stint at the place was mostly after mine. The father of the Rainbird I knew was my father's foreman in the Sellotape factory in Borehamwood. Many a time, I walked home from school by a very circuitous route just in order to have intense philosophical (or were they political?) discussions with him, which were one of the few things I enjoyed while at the school.
19th REPLY
NAME: Nigel Wood
DATE: 28th May 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
The Rainbird I knew was plucky, witty and academically very gifted. He was racked with terrible asthma, and I believe he died at university during an attack. He did have an older brother at the school. I think they lived in Hadley Road, New Barnet..
20th REPLY
NAME:Stephen Giles
DATE: 28th May 2008
CONNECTION WITH QE: Victim 1957-64
Referring to your list, Nigel (reply 17), Geoff Lindsay-Neale sadly died many years ago. He became a solicitor (as opposed to the many 'solici'ors' we have these days!!) He was a friend of a guy called Steve Airey who lived near Apex Corner, Mill Hill, who played in a band with Eric Dizdale (last heard of living in Plymouth), later in my band and around 1967 in the Ethnic Shuffle Orchestre (spelling boy!) based in Muswell Hill, containing Ashley Hutchings, Simon Nicol and Richard Thompson - later to form Fairport Convention. That list could have been 1b or 1c in the 1957 intake, I was in 1a. But Geoff L-N ended up in my class when C0cks was form master, perhaps in the 4th year, all very confusing now. Did nobody keep records? Last thing on our minds 50 years ago I suppose.
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