61st REPLY

I welcome seeing your Isle of Man photos, Nick. I have never been myself but hope to do so one day. There is so little time and money to do everything. I have however enjoyed Isle of Man programmes on the TV, especially about the railways, including Michael Portillo's journeys. I hope to send more photos of my own from my rail visits shortly, including the Severn Valley autumn gala with 46100 Royal Scot on show.

62nd REPLY

I hesitate to call into question Jas Cowen's memory, especially as he is so obviously a fellow railway enthusiast but as far as I am aware none of the Royal Scot Class locos received a blue livery [reply 55], either in LMS or BR days. I think the most likely explanation is that the Royal Scot Train (as opposed to engine) was hauled by a blue liveried Coronation Pacific (well over half received blue liveries for a short period whilst BR made up its mind as to what colour its express locos should carry). I no longer go chasing loco numbers giving that up when steam gave way to diesel but I do collect books on British & Irish Railways up to 1968 as well as canals and road transport prior to the combustion engine. This has become something of an obsession as I have well over 5000 titles in my collection. Luckily I have an understanding wife!

63rd REPLY

James - could you have been thinking of this - a jigsaw puzzle of "46132 The King's Regiment - Liverpool" in blue livery coming out of a tunnel ?

64th REPLY

Mike [reply 62], I haven't had a memory lapse in relation to 46100 Royal Scot emerging from the Elstree tunnels in blue livery nor, Stephen, have I seen a jigsaw puzzle of 46132 The Kings Regiment - Liverpool emerging from a tunnel and transferred it in my mind. I am very sure that the event was experienced by me and in fact I had to wait some while after its scheduled appearance to see it. The exact amount of time is not etched in my memory but I think it was about 90 minutes late. I had acquired quite a reservoir of patience in regard to late appearance of trains as the Scottish expresses to London ('The Thames Clyde Express and 'The Waverley') sometimes appeared in the evenings well beyond the scheduled times. I do not have anything written down unlike many of my other lists, as in fact there were not many other trains that day, which makes me think that the day would have been a Sunday. Now in regard to the blue liveried Royal Scot engine the fact that it was so rare for a blue liveried engine to appear on a train coming out of St Pancras made it an eventful occasion, actually probably unique, unless anyone can tell me different. This was a special chartered train and not a version of the titled 'Royal Scot' train, which ran out of Euston and which I have never heard of being diverted out of St Pancras. Of course I have fond memories of both the Coronation class and Princess Royal class engines pulling trains to and from Euston from my school trainspotting days, both from watching at Euston, Bushey Troughs and Watford Junction, especially from the tall wall besides the station. I even travelled on 'The Royal Scot' train to and from Glasgow when I went with the Summerswood school party on a holiday to Scotland. We stayed in a school up there in Glasgow and travelled on many Scottish trains. As for the jigsaw puzzle you have submitted, Stephen. thanks for sending it. I am certainly intrigued by it. Was this based on a photo of a real event? I never saw any Royal Scot class in blue livery except the instance of 46100 I wrote about. Maybe someone also saw 46100 but he preferred for the puzzle for some reason to favour 46132 with the honour. More research is needed here and I think I will submit a question to Steam Railway magazine on it. In connection with Mike's comments about Coronation class blue liveried engines I hope also to learn more. I personally never saw any Coronation or Princess Royal engines on trains through Borehamwood over many years of trainspotting. There were however some Royal Scot engines allocated for working trains on the line before being scrapped. Talk of blue liveries also reminds me of the blue Midland Pullman trains from St Pancras to Manchester, also much seen by me.

65th REPLY

In relation to the Coronation class locomotives Wikipedia has a lot written about the different liveries and if correct, which I expect it is, BR Green was introduced in November 1951 (when I was 6) with 46232 'Duchess of Montrose' and this was applied to the other engines in the class so that between Oct 55 and Dec 57 (when I was 10-12) all 38 locomotives carried it concurrently, the only livery the entire class carried. Then BR red was carried on 16 of the class from the late 1950s (when I was 13 onwards.) It says one of the class carried the blue livery until June 54 but none after that, until modern times. With the Royal Scot class there is little relating to liveries at all on Wikipedia. Of the 2 surviving, 46115 Scots Guardsman has appeared in black and 46100 is now of course at the Severn Valley railway currently in Brunswick green and is due to stay there for the next two weekends along with the newly built A1 'Tornado'. I may go up there to see them both again.

66th REPLY

Amazing, Mike, that you have over 5000 titles in your collection on transport subjects. You must indeed have an understanding wife! I won't talk at length about collecting or hoarding, for I have received many a family lecture on the theme. I have far fewer titles than that on my shelves but I still live a life of terror with my wife forbidding the purchase of any more books when visiting preserved railways. Before this embargo I have limited more recent purchases of transport books only to ones more recent with colour photos, as I have enough with black and white ones. I do enjoy receiving Steam Railway magazine every four weeks with its many colour photos of today's railways and other photos in black and white of times past pre the Beeching cull of lines and services. That remains a blessing and to be fair to my wife I have thousands of books in my library and other rooms relating to many other subjects of a non-fiction sort as well as a large fiction library also.

67th REPLY

Jas's response [reply 64] to my comments about the Royal Scots got me searching through my books for information on liveries and if you have ever misplaced a book in a library then this isn't as easy as it seems. I have several titles referring specifically to the Royal Scots with two giving details of liveries, the first being The Book of the Royal Scots published by Irwell Press in 1999. This gives the liveries as follows:~ 1927 Crimson Lake; 1939-45 war-time black, repainted 1946 LMS black on the parallel boiler engines and those being converted; 1948 Mixed traffic black with the exception of 46139 which appeared in experimental apple green; 1949 BR Brunswick Green. A further book referred to (An Illustrated History of LMS Engines, Volume 5, published by Silver Link 1989, written by David Jenkinson and Bob Essery) goes even further and states that Royal Scot 46100 was not rebuilt until 1950 and only ever carried BR Green in the rebuilt form. Royal Scot got the number 46100 dring the week ending 19.6.48. If Royal Scot did carry a blue livery then I think that this information would have appeared in the railway press at the time and surely would have been picked up by these authors who were/are experts in their field. I have looked at other titles but non have sections specifically relating to liveries apart from descriptions in photographic captions. I saw Royal Scot at Bressingham many years ago looking very smart in red livery. I expect the railway scene pre-war (and earlier) could be quite colourful with almost as many liveries as in today's privatised scene.

68th REPLY

For what it's worth (and bearing in mind that I know woefully little on the subject of steam locos), there are hints scattered around the Internet that Royal Scot 46159 'The Royal Air Force' was in Air Force blue. Apparently it was rebuilt in 1962 and scrapped the following year! It was certainly modelled in blue sometimes, as here, but I realise that proves nothing. I can't find any colour photos of the real thing but perhaps someone can?

69th REPLY

Jas [reply 66], the transport books are not the half of it. I also have a large crime, science fiction/fantasy collection as well as numerous westerns. My son has inherited the same gene and also collects and many of his books remain at our house. My wife rarely goes into what I call the library leaving it to me to dust when the spiders get out of hand! By the way if you can remember the year when you thought you saw 46100, I can look in my various railway magazines for that time. I have most of the titles that were published at the time in bound volumes.

70th REPLY

There are two colour photos of Royal Air Force in a book published by Ian Allen - Working Steam, Rebuilt Royal Scots by Gavin Morrison. Not in blue I'm afraid. Referring to the Irwell Press again [reply 67], the original (4)6159 cost £6467 to build, not that much more than the Wren Model! The engine is shown as having a heavy intermediate repair in March/April 1961 with a further visit to works in September of the same year. It was given a taper boiler in 1945 and BR smoke deflectors in July 1950. It was withdrawn w/e 1.12.62 and scrapped at Crewe March 1963. By the end of 1960 it had covered over 1.9 million miles so I think the LMS and BR got their money's worth unlike with the later standards such as the 9Fs.

71st REPLY

In relation to the 69th reply I do not remember exactly when 46100 appeared in blue livery out of Elstree tunnel but think I was younger than when in the 6th/7th forms (1962/3) so maybe it was either 1960 or 1961. I have never kept a diary despite getting a school prize relating to Samuel Pepys nor are my monthly Trains Illustrated mags available, as I used to cut out photos, put them on card backing and number/index them. You are welcome to look further in your mags of course but I may well write, as I said, to Steam Railway concerning blue liveries for Royal Scots and for 46100 in particular. Of course the fact that unlike other Royal Scots 46100 was not scrapped does not help with the date issue. In relation to the 68th reply I enjoyed seeing the model pictures and note that there are 1s of Royal Scot in LMS maroon and green maroon (one as 6100 and one as 46100).

72nd REPLY

I made a note of the following exchange during a recent episode of The Big Bang Theory: Sheldon: "I hear that locomotive smoke is the second leading cause of death for train aficionados." Raj: "What's the first?" Howard: "Suicide." Sheldon: "Wrong! Obesity."

73rd REPLY

Recently there has been the usual proliferation of Autumn Steam galas and I attended some of them, the Severn Valley one, the Swanage trailway one and the Mid Hants Watercress line one. These provide a good opportunity to see various liveries in different colours and I enjoyed the variety on view. The Mid Hants one for instance had several in black but also the LMS Crab 13065 in red, LNER A$ 4464 Bittern in blue and SR Lord Nelson in light green. I did not attend the Bluebell Line's 'Giants of Steam' the other weekend but was delighted to view several videos of it sent to my Facebook page from various Steam Railway supporters. They really made me feel I was part of the experience. I pass this on to any current steam railway fans should you not already have done so. Specify 'Steam Railway' as one of your likes and you may receive, like me, news from the various railways, photos and videos. The same thing may occur if specifying 'Heritage Railways' as a 'like'.

74th REPLY

I too do enjoy The Big Bang Theory and relished the episode where Sheldon was on a train journey talking with a fellow train enthusiast geek in intricate detail to the exclusion of conversing with anyone else. I am amazed at the depth of knowledge of some of my fellow train enthusiasts I talk to on trains and platforms. Sometimes some are a little bit arrogant. As regards the 72nd reply I tend to be careful these days in regard to leaning out of train windows into the smoke and grit coming towards me without at least having on some goggles. I fear I too am much too obese but I don't ascribe any of that to railway travelling.

75th REPLY

There are some very good photos of blue LNER/BR/ER Pacifics in the December Back Track for any one who is interested. It would appear that BR tried out several shades before going green as the blue didn't seem to wear well, at least on steam locos. I must admit that I thought the blue diesel era a little dreary.

76th REPLY

Thanks for the tip off Mike, I'll jump on a Croydon Tram to Smiths one lunchtime this week for that - just wondering if they'll let me in without a tie!!!

77th REPLY

It is really quiet at the moment on the roads through Ludgershall down here in Wiltshire. It is amazing the contrast with the busy rush hours with loads of cars in the morning and evenings (7.30 a.m to 9.30 a.m. and 4.30 to 6.30 p.m.) There are no lorries coming through either, despite it being a fairly main lorry route through here. The lorries of course no longer are British Leyland but display such foreign names and symbols as MAN, DAF, VOLVO, MERCEDES and IVECO. I enjoyed going to the Great Dorset Steam Fair in late Summer this year, where earlier lorry types were on display including a Leyland vehicle with a trailer with the name British Road Services prominently displayed on both, a joy to me as an ex BRS employee and one who misses seeing the old BRS, BRS Contracts, BRS Truck Rental and BRS Parcels vehicles on the road. However I did see a Pickford's Removals vehicle the other day, which was part of the old NFC empire.

78th REPLY

I was not able to go to the Severn Valley Railway's Manors weekend but I am again delighted by the videos sent by others on Facebook. I liked the views of a train with a Cambrian Coast Express headboard. I remember seeing similar views on the mainline pre Beeching. As regards the blue liveried jigsaw photo sent earlier I have looked it up on the internet and along with other blurb it says the original artwork for the picture was by TE North. I hope soon I may get further news regarding Blue Liveried Scots and especially regarding 46100 in blue.

79th REPLY

James, I am unable to confirm whether Royal Scot class 46100 ever appeared on the line through Elstree; however, the model railway club here in Poundbury has an old leaflet of slang expressions used by railwaymen and the slang for the Royal Scot class was 'the miners friend' presumably because of their high coal consumption. Like you I spent many happy hours at both ends of Elstree tunnel watching the old steam engines, but I always felt that the engines on the St. Pancras line were the cinderellas of the BR system and much preferred an afternoon at Hadley Wood with the magnificent ex LNER Pacifics. They seemed to my unsophisticated brain far more classy especially if pulling one of the great named trains. Whilst one can still see trainspotters, I think that the DMU and EMU of the modern system make slim pickings compared with the steam engines of 50 or more years ago.

80th REPLY

Paul, in regard to the St Pancras line being the cinderella of the BR system there is certainly some merit in what you say. On the other hand some good points may be recalled. Many trains were double headed on the ascent out of St Pancras to Elstree and Borehamwood station. This gave much delight. Additionally there were large coal and other goods trains going through and I obtained much pleasure seeing both the Beyer Garrats and Crosti 9Fs on many of these trains. It was a great plesure seeing these clunking their way through. I also especially enjoyed the "Robin Hood" train coming through with its shiny green Jubilee class engine. I too enjoyed the hustle and bustle with the porters rushing about when the parcels train came in at night. Of course I also visited other lines as well and these provided further particular delights. I personally preferred the Euston line Pacifics to the Kings Cross ones and the hours spent at Bushey troughs and Watford Junction.