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< Thread 108 Thread 109 (57 replies so far) Thread 110 >
Replies 41-57
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41st REPLY
NAME: Nigel Wood.jpg "Nigel Wood")
DATE: 18 August 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
Perhaps the most famous/notorious of Ross's indicators [reply 40] are: lavatory, napkin, riding (U speech) vs. toilet, serviette, horse riding (non U). You still hear U speakers (judging by their choice of words), though I suspect most have acquired U speech (or some smatterings of it) by covertly reading Noblesse Oblige. But I've yet to hear anyone refer to a mirror (non U) as a looking-glass (U). Perhaps I just don't move in the right circles! I'd guess that RM C0cks was a U speaker, but I hadn't been sensitised to the distinction back in those days. If this sort of thing amuses you rather than angers you, I recommend Betjeman's "How to get on in Society" which appeared in Noblesse Oblige. It's googlable. And having just used quotes, I'd better warn you that "The Laurels" Brickfield Terrace is non-U. This is because of the quotes rather than the road-name.
And as for me? I'd never heard anyone call a serviette a 'napkin' until long after I'd left home. Yet we had a lavatory rather than a toilet in our 1930s semi in Totteridge. This doesn't indicate my parents' class, merely that they'd learnt to speak before the First World War, probably before 'toilet' had acquired its modern meaning. (Incidentally 'lavatory', remembering one's Latin, is no less euphemistic than 'toilet'. I rather favour 'wc', but maybe, in Mitford's phrase, this is eccentric.
NAME: Stephen Giles 
DATE: 19 August 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64
Ah ha Nigel, my wife who is Anglo-Argentine, always says "looking glass" for mirror, and as you can imagine - a serviette is a "napkin" in our house!!! Another such variance is the 'correct' use of lunch, tea, dinner and supper, which seem to vary considerably both as to breeding and location - for instance "school dinners"........well really!!! In the city, you never meet someone for a "spot of dinner" at 1pm - it's a "spot of lunch"!!!
DATE: 19 August 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64
Ah ha Nigel, my wife who is Anglo-Argentine, always says "looking glass" for mirror, and as you can imagine - a serviette is a "napkin" in our house!!! Another such variance is the 'correct' use of lunch, tea, dinner and supper, which seem to vary considerably both as to breeding and location - for instance "school dinners"........well really!!! In the city, you never meet someone for a "spot of dinner" at 1pm - it's a "spot of lunch"!!!
NAME: Vic Coughtrey 
Then & Now
DATE: 19 August 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 54-59
My grandmother, who was very non-u, but born in 1874, always said 'looking-glass' rather than 'mirror' (cf. Alice in the Looking-Glass.) The lavatory was the 'w' rather than the 'wc', or occasionally, the 'labberty'. The mis-pronunciation suggests to me that 'lavatory' was a very new word when she was young and she never quite got used to it. As for napkins/serviettes, such things were not to be found and perhaps not even heard of in our house.
Regarding the names of meals, I was most confused when I first met Angela. She was (and is) a stickler for the middle-class labels she was brought up with, whereas I, both from my family background and from my many jobs in factories etc, thought of 'dinner' as having to be at mid-day and 'tea' as being the main evening meal (often more substantial than 'dinner'). 'Supper' was any main meal had in the evening (in place of 'tea') at a restaurant or function, as in "Cor, them Chinese suppers dunnarf eat, don't they?". In fact 'supper' in early '60s factory speak seemed to be restricted to meals in the then rapidly spreading Chinese and Indian restaurants.
Then & NowDATE: 19 August 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 54-59
My grandmother, who was very non-u, but born in 1874, always said 'looking-glass' rather than 'mirror' (cf. Alice in the Looking-Glass.) The lavatory was the 'w' rather than the 'wc', or occasionally, the 'labberty'. The mis-pronunciation suggests to me that 'lavatory' was a very new word when she was young and she never quite got used to it. As for napkins/serviettes, such things were not to be found and perhaps not even heard of in our house.
Regarding the names of meals, I was most confused when I first met Angela. She was (and is) a stickler for the middle-class labels she was brought up with, whereas I, both from my family background and from my many jobs in factories etc, thought of 'dinner' as having to be at mid-day and 'tea' as being the main evening meal (often more substantial than 'dinner'). 'Supper' was any main meal had in the evening (in place of 'tea') at a restaurant or function, as in "Cor, them Chinese suppers dunnarf eat, don't they?". In fact 'supper' in early '60s factory speak seemed to be restricted to meals in the then rapidly spreading Chinese and Indian restaurants.
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen 
.jpg "James Cowen gallery")
Then & Now
DATE: 05 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Fellow contributors, I have now taken out from my library my copy of Noblesse Oblige and find it interesting re‑reading it. I note also there are 3 other publications in the Futura Publications series, which I do not believe I have but would like to (Debrett's Correct Form, The English Gentleman, U and Non U Revisited.) I also enjoyed reading what you all have written. Of course U and Non-U referred to upper and non-upper class rather than the more general in/out and swinging/dodgy. Besides the use of different words on a class basis, I was also interested in the different pronounciations in speech. I rib my wife about different pronounciation she has to me and maybe some of it could be her attendance at a private/public school in Nottingham gleaned from fellow pupils (as her dad had a working class background despite his accounting qualifications and becoming the Borough Treasurer of Mansfield) rather than regional accent differences.
Then & NowDATE: 05 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Fellow contributors, I have now taken out from my library my copy of Noblesse Oblige and find it interesting re‑reading it. I note also there are 3 other publications in the Futura Publications series, which I do not believe I have but would like to (Debrett's Correct Form, The English Gentleman, U and Non U Revisited.) I also enjoyed reading what you all have written. Of course U and Non-U referred to upper and non-upper class rather than the more general in/out and swinging/dodgy. Besides the use of different words on a class basis, I was also interested in the different pronounciations in speech. I rib my wife about different pronounciation she has to me and maybe some of it could be her attendance at a private/public school in Nottingham gleaned from fellow pupils (as her dad had a working class background despite his accounting qualifications and becoming the Borough Treasurer of Mansfield) rather than regional accent differences.
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & Now
DATE: 06 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
My wife always uses the expression "I'm just going to spend a penny" when off to the toilet. Does this come in to the realm of U and non-U or middle and working class or is it a classless expression? I do point out to her sometimes that it is anachronistic as the toilets when a fee is demanded such as at Clapham Junction now require a 20p piece. I was also interested to hear 1 comedian saying on the radio (or is it wireless?) that in their house when retiring to the small room they say I'm going to be in residence. They always laugh a lot when it is said "The Queen is now in residence."
Then & NowDATE: 06 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
My wife always uses the expression "I'm just going to spend a penny" when off to the toilet. Does this come in to the realm of U and non-U or middle and working class or is it a classless expression? I do point out to her sometimes that it is anachronistic as the toilets when a fee is demanded such as at Clapham Junction now require a 20p piece. I was also interested to hear 1 comedian saying on the radio (or is it wireless?) that in their house when retiring to the small room they say I'm going to be in residence. They always laugh a lot when it is said "The Queen is now in residence."
NAME: Vic Coughtrey Then & Now
DATE: 06 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 54-59
In my family in the '50s we always used my grandmother's Victorian euphemism "to leave the room". This was used anywhere, without regard to its literal meaning Even if you were walking along the street or on a bus, you would say you needed to leave the room.
Then & NowDATE: 06 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 54-59
In my family in the '50s we always used my grandmother's Victorian euphemism "to leave the room". This was used anywhere, without regard to its literal meaning Even if you were walking along the street or on a bus, you would say you needed to leave the room.
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & Now
DATE: 12 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I see that the Marmite gang are at it again [see a number of replies from 12 onwards], producing another interesting advert on TV. I would just like to say that my Marmite jar, if not on the table, is at the front of my food cupboard and not hidden away, neglected and forgotten. More seriously from the Andover Oxfam shop I recently acquired a copy of the Marmite recipe book with photos of past adverts as well as interesting delicious recipes with Marmite. This is a book to be recommended, as is the Be-Ro book, which my wife constantly still uses for tasty meals, although I wonder if Be-Ro flour is still produced. (Note to self- look up Google later.)
Then & NowDATE: 12 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I see that the Marmite gang are at it again [see a number of replies from 12 onwards], producing another interesting advert on TV. I would just like to say that my Marmite jar, if not on the table, is at the front of my food cupboard and not hidden away, neglected and forgotten. More seriously from the Andover Oxfam shop I recently acquired a copy of the Marmite recipe book with photos of past adverts as well as interesting delicious recipes with Marmite. This is a book to be recommended, as is the Be-Ro book, which my wife constantly still uses for tasty meals, although I wonder if Be-Ro flour is still produced. (Note to self- look up Google later.)
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & Now
DATE: 16 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I have since looked up both Marmite and Be-Ro Flour/Recipe Books on Wikipedia and personally found the entries very interesting. Fellow shopping products fans may care to have a look. With Marmite I see that in addition to the special edition jar in commemoration of the Diamond Jubilee of QEII produced in 2012, which I bought, there were Guiness marmite jars produced in 2007, champagne marmite jars produced in 2008 for Valentine's Day and Marstons Pedigree marmite jars to celebrate the 2009 Ashes cricket test series. These passed me by but no I expect Robert Opie acquired examples of each. I have not seen any Be-Ro flour packets in the shops for years. Usually there are either supermarket own brands, Homepride, Rank Hovis or McDougalls. but I note the 41st edition of the Be-Ro recipe book was produced in Aug 2011. At home I see that we have 2 editions, one a small size one with 60 pages and the Centenary Edition - large size with 48 pages.
Then & NowDATE: 16 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I have since looked up both Marmite and Be-Ro Flour/Recipe Books on Wikipedia and personally found the entries very interesting. Fellow shopping products fans may care to have a look. With Marmite I see that in addition to the special edition jar in commemoration of the Diamond Jubilee of QEII produced in 2012, which I bought, there were Guiness marmite jars produced in 2007, champagne marmite jars produced in 2008 for Valentine's Day and Marstons Pedigree marmite jars to celebrate the 2009 Ashes cricket test series. These passed me by but no I expect Robert Opie acquired examples of each. I have not seen any Be-Ro flour packets in the shops for years. Usually there are either supermarket own brands, Homepride, Rank Hovis or McDougalls. but I note the 41st edition of the Be-Ro recipe book was produced in Aug 2011. At home I see that we have 2 editions, one a small size one with 60 pages and the Centenary Edition - large size with 48 pages.
49th REPLY
NAME: Nigel WoodDATE: 16 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
In our last-but-one house we had a quarry-tile floor installed in the kitchen, and a beech-block worktop. A solicitous friend warned us that the worktop would come apart and that anything remotely fragile that we dropped on the floor would break. Over the nine years we lived there the worktop stayed together and I can remember only one thing that we broke (smashed to smithereens) by dropping. It was a jar of ... Marmite. The largest size available for domestic use!
50th
REPLY
.JPG "Nick Dean gallery")
DATE: 22 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
My wife has just received a House of Bath Christmas catalogue that offers Marmite cufflinks - one bearing the legend, "Love", the other, "Hate".
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & Now
DATE: 25 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Sorry, Nigel [reply 49], you dropped that large jar of Marmite. Given the cost of a large jar that was a disaster. Still if that's the only breakage after 9 years, you are doing well. I have been clumsy in the past and have resorted to plastic tubes but recently no glass jars have broken so still generally buy the jars. I am not tempted by the Marmite cuff links, Nick. Whatever next from their marketing people! I think there should either be two 'Love Marmite' or two 'Hate Marmite' links. I shouldn't like to see the two hands at war with each other. On the recent Severn Valley Railway gala weekend I sat opposite someone with a can of R White lemonade and was tempted on the strength of those past R White lemonade adverts to take the empty can home and put it above 1 of our kitchen cupboards. I confess to being a lemonade drinker but not a secret one. I applaud the Wurzels as also being a cider drinker, preferably the Bulmers Woodpecker sort with the medium sweet taste.
Then & NowDATE: 25 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Sorry, Nigel [reply 49], you dropped that large jar of Marmite. Given the cost of a large jar that was a disaster. Still if that's the only breakage after 9 years, you are doing well. I have been clumsy in the past and have resorted to plastic tubes but recently no glass jars have broken so still generally buy the jars. I am not tempted by the Marmite cuff links, Nick. Whatever next from their marketing people! I think there should either be two 'Love Marmite' or two 'Hate Marmite' links. I shouldn't like to see the two hands at war with each other. On the recent Severn Valley Railway gala weekend I sat opposite someone with a can of R White lemonade and was tempted on the strength of those past R White lemonade adverts to take the empty can home and put it above 1 of our kitchen cupboards. I confess to being a lemonade drinker but not a secret one. I applaud the Wurzels as also being a cider drinker, preferably the Bulmers Woodpecker sort with the medium sweet taste.
52nd 
REPLY
Then & NowDATE: 23 October 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Further to postings about products in the marketplace I note that Hellman's mayonnaise is celebrating 100 years of production and are selling jars which celebrate that fact. I was introduced to the product in 1985 and have been using it ever since, a mere 28 years of the 100. When I worked at 8 Bedford Row in Holborn for Esal Commodities Ltd, I used to frequent a cafe at the back of Oxford St somewhere and they used to produce delicious salads with Hellman's mayonnaise on the side and I reported to my wife that this was indeed good stuff. Incidentally it was no mere down market establishment. One day Andrew Lloyd Webber (now Lord Webber) came in with some friends and ordered from the menu. I recall they were very loud in conversation together but I found it all most interesting.
53rd 
REPLY
DATE: 26 October 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64
As we are currently on our last jar of Dulce de Leche, does anyone know if any supermarkets still sell this? Waitrose used to but no longer.
54th REPLY
NAME: Nigel WoodDATE: 28 September 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
Stephen: you could try making your own (or a similar thing) by simmering a tin of condensed milk for at least two hours (more for a firmer result) in a saucepan of water. No need to pierce the tin first, as long as there's no chance of the saucepan boiling dry. I did it years ago and found the result delicious. But then I'm easily impressed.
NAME: Stephen Giles
DATE: 29 October 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64
Hi Nigel, yes that's how my wife used to make it when she lived in Buenos Aires - dulce de leche is very big there, that and steak of course!
DATE: 29 October 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64
Hi Nigel, yes that's how my wife used to make it when she lived in Buenos Aires - dulce de leche is very big there, that and steak of course!
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & Now
DATE: 03 November 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Talking of condensed milk, my wife Ayleen makes a delicious pie known as Jamaican Crunch Pie. It is recipe 76 in the Good Housekeeping Hot and Cold Desserts cards, for those who have them. The recipe includes 4oz of ginger nuts, 2oz melted butter, 1/4 pint of double cream, 6 tablespoons of lemon juice and the grated rind of 1 lemon. It is really tasty and the family loved eating slices on a recent visit to Polesden Lacey's National Trust house and garden. The garden there is a delight in several seasons but it is great to have tasty food as well whilst there.
Then & NowDATE: 03 November 2013
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Talking of condensed milk, my wife Ayleen makes a delicious pie known as Jamaican Crunch Pie. It is recipe 76 in the Good Housekeeping Hot and Cold Desserts cards, for those who have them. The recipe includes 4oz of ginger nuts, 2oz melted butter, 1/4 pint of double cream, 6 tablespoons of lemon juice and the grated rind of 1 lemon. It is really tasty and the family loved eating slices on a recent visit to Polesden Lacey's National Trust house and garden. The garden there is a delight in several seasons but it is great to have tasty food as well whilst there.
NAME: Hedley Morgan
DATE: 05 April 2017
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1957-64
DATE: 05 April 2017
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1957-64
Looking again at the Leicester photograph [original message & first 5 replies] I believe I can add a few names. At the end of the back row on the left is Whalley. Three in on the 4th row, and next to Martyn and Noddy, is Dave Langstone. Up at the other end Nigel is sandwiched between Chris Webber and Patrick Lane, and in front of him is Pete Parrish. Fifth from the end of the 4th row is Brian Symons. I've now added those suggestions to the photo, Hedley. And many thanks for bringing us back to the days of this thread (before it got all Marmitey)!
This thread is NOT closed but any further replies concerning branded products or services will appear in Thread W7 instead, with a link back to this thread. You should still put 109 as the thread number on the form if your reply relates to a reply here rather than in W7, so that I'm reminded to link back from W7.
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