ORIGINAL MESSAGE
NAME: Nick Dean
.JPG "Nick Dean gallery")
DATE: 14 September 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
Having very recently, and rather belatedly, seen an original copy of Magna Carta for the first time - in the Chapter House of Salisbury Cathedral - I gather (and I may be behind the pace on this too) that next year there is to be a gathering at the British Library of all four surviving Magna Cartas (Magnae Cartae?). Two copies are held at the Library and a fourth is at Lincoln. One of these did a tour last year, but we missed it when it was at St Albans. The main thing I remember about Magna Carta from school, apart from the date (1215) and the king (John), was Sam C0cks making an excessive fuss about how you musn't say "the Magna Carta" because Latin has no articles. He deprecated also people who said "Magna Charter" (it was either Magna Carta or Great Charter, not a hybrid), although this was, of course, the form cheerfully embraced by Sellar & Yeatman in 1066 and All That. As I recall, they added "except the common people" in parenthesis at the end of most of the clauses and substituted Ganymede for Runnymede, which they described as a desert island in the Thames.
1066 and All That was (and probably still is) one of my favourite books, for which I must thank 'Taffy' Wright, a recent contributor to this site, who, having presumably just stumbled on it himself, read portions to us during a Latin lesson. His focus was particularly on the adaptation of schoolboy Latin: things like Ceasar throwing his troops thousands of paces over the River Flumen. I can't remember if there was a having been captured messenger, but, if not, there should have been. Sellar & Yeatman wrote other books in similar, sometimes excruciating vein, including Garden Rubbish, which refers, inter alia, to the Greta Garbo school of horticulture - "I want to be a lawn".
1st REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen
.jpg "James Cowen gallery")
Then & NowDATE: 20 September 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I too have seen the original copy of Magna Carta in the chapter house of Salisbury Cathedral, Nick. I would like to make a confession concerning this, however. Despite living in my present home in Wiltshire for 27 years and visiting Salisbury nearly every week when at home and fairly often entering the cathedral, it is only a few years ago that I entered the chapter house to look at the copy of said document. This was on account of visiting Hereford and telling someone that we lived near Salisbury. The person then said to me "Oh yes ! Where the Magna Carta can be seen." In Hereford Cathedral incidentally we did see that ancient map of the world [Mappa Mundi], which we had heard of. We also bought a postcard of it. Incidentally in connection with the British Library I often see Ken Cooper at OE events. He used to be Chief Executive of the British Library and I have enjoyed chatting with him about his time there. He also has a page profile in the current The Elizabethan.
I still have my copy of 1066 and all that, which I also enjoyed in my youth. Of course today's kids (and adults) have Horrible Histories to keep them interested in past times. In recent years in Wiltshire we have our own history festival in the Chalke Valley in June. At this year's a history book recently compiled for young people had its debut (England's Story by Brian Beggs). It is wonderful that there are still people engaged in making history for children interesting just as Winston Churchill did for adults with his History of the English Speaking People. Maybe these volumes are sometimes used as history textbooks in some schools. I myself still like to watch historical series on TV. An especially good one I thought was the recent programmes on the Stuarts with Clare Jackson, an alumna of my old college, Sidney Sussex, and now Senior Tutor at Trinity Hall. I would recommend it, if repeated.
2nd REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 21 September 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
Jas - your reference to Ken Cooper, whom I don't think I've met, jolted my memory because about 25 years ago I was working on the relocation of part of the then DHSS from London to Leeds. At the time the British Library was one of the largest such projects in the public sector and it was deemed important to learn lessons. I think I still have somewhere a rather splendid promotional brochure that Cooper sent to my then boss - though I was unaware until now of a QE connection. (Incidentally, the desert island feature in The Elizabethan, to which KC has contributed, might be a jolly diversion for this site!)
However, returning to my original message, the latest book by David Kynaston on post war social history (A Shake of the Dice, covering 1959-62), which (like Robert Caro's monumental and continuing biography of Lyndon Johnson) is related virtually in real time, contains, on the opening page, a quote from Tony Hancock as a jury foreman in Twelve Angry Men: "Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
3rd REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 25 September 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
Re my reply 2 above, by sheer coincidence I've just read a Times obituary (24/9) of Sir Harry Hookway who apparently was appointed the first chief executive of the British Library in 1978 (and was probably Ken Cooper's predecessor). One of the reasons for other projects showing an interest in the BL in late '80s was a perception that, frankly, it was taking forever and that, in the brave new Thatcherite world, more streamlined methods (eg 'design and build') might be desirable. It was therefore interesting to see in The Times that Hookway actually anticipated the library being constructed in several phases over a number of years (18 in fact) so that the Treasury would not baulk at the funding. In retirement he evidently attended a dinner party at which a guest asked rhetorically who was responsible for "that ghastly building", to which he confessed quietly - and in terms of which I'm sure Oliphant would approve - "it was I". I've visited the BL quite a lot: aesthetically it sits rather uneasily alongside the revitalised St Pancras (and King's Cross for that matter), resembling, I've always thought, a post-modernist take on the Forbidden City in Beijing. Much better inside, though, with a caff that's very good for meetings at short notice.
DATE: 27 September 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1960 to 1967
I have a somewhat tenuous connection with Ken Cooper. Immediately prior to running the British Library, he was Director General of the Building Employers Confederation, formerly the NFBTE, the trade association for the building and construction industry. In the 1980's I was recruited by Ken's successor to be the BEC's Commercial Director and many of my then colleagues had worked under Ken and would often speak of him.
5th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 02 October 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Maybe, Roger, you might get to one of the OE gatherings at school such as Founders Day, the Annual Dinner or Dinner Debate and speak with Ken Cooper over your common past connections. He is usually at most such events and very amenable to talking about his present and past life. He had several Chief Executive jobs before retiring and was School Captain for part of his time when at QEs. I wonder if the latter was any help in his career roles in his beginning to lead early?
6th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 07 October 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
In connection with Magna Carta [original message & reply 1] I note in my latest copy of The Salisbury Journal (2/10/14) that Salisbury Cathedral has been awarded £415,800 from the Heritage Lottery Fund for its M C Project. This is to prepare for the UNESCO-listed document's 800th anniversary. Using displays, media, interactive stations and films, the exhibition will tell the story of how M C came about and explore its lasting legacy. Use will be made of other documents from the archives. Perhaps you, Nick and others, may be able to come and see it after the exhibition opens, from February 2015 onwards. The 415,800 does seem a lot of money to spend given the closure of so much else in cost saving in the county of Wiltshire but it shows the largeness of Lottery funds gleaned from lottery tickets bought.
7th REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 09 October 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
Although half a million doesn't go as far as it used to, £400K+ does sound quite a lot for the purpose. On the other hand, it's probably fair to say that, in spite of its historic importance, Magna Carta is not the most visually exciting document and so something more may be needed to keep the punters happy (apart, that is, from the stunning beauty of the Chapter House, its argentine displays and, of course, the cathedral itself). As regards my original message, it was interesting to learn that access to all four copies is to be restricted to 1,216 people chosen by ballot (not the common people)..
8th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 30 October 2014
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I note from the latest edition of the Salisbury Journal (Thurs Oct 23, 2014) that Salisbury is ranked 7th best place in the world to visit in Lonely Planet's Top Ten. Tom Hall said: "It deserves to be recognised as one of the UK's most important destination for travellers next year. Bursting with history, top class restaurants, atmospheric nightlife and a host of festivals planned for 2015, we believe Salisbury is a must see for domestic and international travellers alike." Should any come and like to visit Salisbury and also my wife and I just let me know. Clearly the MC 800 celebrations have much to do with it all. I am intrigued to research more on the six above Salisbury, which include El Chalten in Argentina at number 2, Plovdiv in Bulgaria at Number 6 and Chennal, India at Number 9.
9th 
REPLY
DATE: 22 January 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
The latest issue of History Today draws attention to a £2 coin to celebrate Magna Carta in which King John is depicted "flourishing a quill". It goes on to remind us of something Sam C0cks made a big fuss about all those years ago - Magna Carta was sealed, not signed. The Mint's wrong!
10th REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 28 January 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
In his very recent TV documentary about Magna Carta, David Starkey said there was no evidence that King John could actually write, but also that no such document as Magna Carta was signed or sealed at Runnymede. 13 copies of the charter emerged later after copious re-working. Incidentally Sam C0cks might have been horrified to note the inscription "Magna Charta" on the door of the US Supreme Court.
11th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 30 January 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I enjoyed very much the David Starkey documentary on Magna Carta but should like to see it again as so much was packed in to it in relevance to succeeding British and American history and so many strong opinions quickly at the end needing further review and discussion. It was interesting to reflect on the fact that the US has taken Magna Carta and similar English documents more to its heart and practice, that is until recent events and policies, than the UK in regard especially to the written constitution and the role of the judiciary. I do enjoy reading Christopher Stevens reviews in the Daily Mail ('Last Night's TV'). He says that Mr Starkey is like a strict schoolmaster who must be listened to with attention lest a piece of chalk be fired at one from the front. I was very attentive but a repeat dose of the same will still be welcomed by me.
12th REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 03 February 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
I agree with Jas that the Starkey documentary would be worth seeing again, given how much was crammed into it. In the meantime, worth noting that Adrian Gill in the Sunday Times also felt like a schoolboy again: "... the air of a teacher on his day off, forced to oversee revision for the thick kids who are retaking their GCSEs. Every observation came with the implication that this wasn't he first time we'd been told ... actually makes me feel guilty for not taking notes." Even so, Gill thought it made "a dry subject understandable"; and, although I'm not generally a fan of DS, I agree.
13th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 25 February 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
In relation to the Salisbury Magna Carta celebrations I have sent to the site a copy of the pages in the Visit Wiltshire 2015 guide relating to these.
14th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 30 April 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I hear on the radio that David Starkey is getting out a new book on Magna Carta. I do not know whether it has yet appeared in the bookshops. I certainly cannot see any reference to it on the Amazon books sites. I enjoyed the debate on the radio he had with a lawyer (Helena Kennedy) about the real significance of the 1215 document and his view that the revised document that evolved in 1225 was more significant. He always tends to stir things up, including on Question Time, and the fact there is so much celebration this year of the 1215 version is not going to stop him. I think it is good that one centenary type celebration this year is about some things other than battles (1415 Battle of Agincourt and 1815 Battle of Waterloo) is good. Here in Ludgershall we have perhaps more reason for celebrating 1815 than many, as the local secondary education academy is supported by Wellington College public school.
15th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 06 May 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Having gone past the Wellington pub in Theobald Street in Borehamwood recently, I wonder if they are celebrating in any way the 200th anniversary of the 1815 Battle of Waterloo. The Wellington has survived as a pub since my school days, when I used to go in there, unlike so many others in the area such as the Crown and the Red Lion. I had rather a busy schedule for the day, so did not go in but maybe will on a later visit. Perhaps a local lad may know something.
16th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 11 May 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Further to my reply 14, I note that copies of David Starkey's Magna Carta are now in the bookshops. I spotted a copy in Salisbury's Waterstones shop over the weekend. I may buy a copy. Plans for celebrations in Salisbury are now progressing smoothly and the local Theatre is very much involved in regard to putting on some plays in collaboration with the Cathedral's plans. I note that Mr Obama is hoping to come over and to join in some of the UK celebrations.
17th REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 11 May 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
In response to reply 14, David Starkey's book Magna Carta is now available on Amazon. It's a good read - he writes better than he presents, in my view - although, as one reviewer put it, it's more like an extended essay than an actual 'book' and the last 100 pages (of 255) are an appendix comparing the 1215, 1216 and 1225 versions of the charter. The material draws heavily on that used for the recent TV programme (as DS acknowledges in his introduction). See Lucy Mangan's review in the Guardian.
DATE: 12 May 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64
James, you may be interested in an Early Music group called Joglaresa who specialise in music from the period of the Crusades which at times really rocks, and they will be performing their Magna Carta show throughout 2015. They do include the rrrrrrrrolled 'R' on occasions if you like that sort of thing - I do not!! Details of gigs are on their website, and the iPlayer holds their session for BBC Radio 3's In Tune on May 6 for 30 days. There seems to be a flexible line-up of musicians, five of whom we saw on Saturday at the Riverhouse Barn in Walton-on-Thames. As always I recorded the gig, and will upload to my dropbox if anyone is interested!
19th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 18 May 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
I find it interesting, Stephen, that there is a group performing a Magna Carta show. I will ask my daughter Grace and son-in-law Richard if they know Joglaresa. They are more into folk singing than I, including early music. I prefer the folk dancing, including taking part. At the Chippenham Folk Festival, which they both help to run, this coming Bank Holiday (late May), both singing and dancing are performed in abundance. I note that Joglaresa perform in Warwick but not at the Warwick Folk Festival (23rd to 26th July this year). Grace and Richard also help there and both singing and dancing are on the agenda. Besides plugging those for any who live nearby or further afield if interested, I enjoyed the Salisbury Fisherton Street Festival this last bank holiday weekend. Especially enjoyed was singing to both the Salisbury Ukulele Group and Paper Moon (the Salisbury based one as against the Bristol based group or the Winnipeg one, all using the same name).
20th REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 26 May 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
Thought it might be worth adding to this thread a photo of a Magna Carta garden taken at the Chelsea Flower Show. The catalogue says, "in 1215 Magna Carta was sealed under oath by King John at Runnymeade ..." Until recently I would have thought this an impeccable statement, but Starkey's book [replies 16-17] raises some doubts: firstly, there is a dearth of contemporaneous references to Runnymede, although this can probably be inferred from "a meadow between Windsor and Staines" (and wet and boggy terrain would have been essential to avoid the risk of anyone starting a battle). Secondly, DS thinks it inconceivable that Magna Carta was sealed when the King met the barons, although it's possible that his seal was attached to some sort of outline draft. Finally, it was pleasing to see DS borrowing directly from Tony Hancock [reply 2]. Referring to John's attempts, encouraged by Pope Innocent III, to renege on his commitments, DS writes, "Magna Carta was dead. It had died in vain."