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ORIGINAL MESSAGE

NAME: Vic Coughtrey  Vic CoughtreyThen & Now

DATE: 30 August 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-59

Perhaps some of you who were at QE during the reign of EH Jenkins (1930-61} have already seen this website I've just discovered. I doubt it though, as no one has mentioned it, which would be very strange! It is maintained by EHJ's nephew Christopher Jenkins and I've contacted him to thank him for preserving and making public the information. I found it fascinating and I'm sure many of you will, too.

1st REPLY

NAME: Nigel Wood  Nigel Wood

DATE: 02 September 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1957-64

Well done, Vic! This is fascinating. I'd always wrongly assumed that EHJ had come from Wales and lost the accent at Oxford, or was at most a second generation Londoner. A lesson in not jumping to conclusions. Now here's a co-incidence: I write this post sitting on a dining chair that my parents bought c1938 from Oetzmann's (the down-market Maples) where EHJ's father had worked! The computer is on an Oetzmann's table, but not the table that went with the chairs, because my parents couldn't afford it!

2nd REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 04 September 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 56-63

I enjoyed reading at Ludgershall Library the website you unearthed in this thread, Vic and hope it will prove useful to them giving the cross-reference to the Stapylton Field site. I expect that they will not relish too many of the critical comments, especially of the old caning regime. I have talked with many of the old timers in this area who experienced a similar regime at their schools. The usual comment is that I got a caning and it did not do me any harm. The more relevant question is did it do good. The Bible does say in Proverbs that foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child but the rod of correction drives it from him, as well as the admonition "Spare the rod and spoil the child." I must have got very spoiled myself for not receiving corporal punishment at school or at home apart from the whacks on the hand from Eric Shirley that most people received. Perhaps it is the excessiveness of the blows that is the main culprit.

I was interested to read about EHJ's naval tome. I have never seen a copy, as I have also never seen a copy of his school history. Has anyone else seen it and read it? It was EHJ's naval connection that encouraged my Dad to urge me to join QEs rather than choosing elsewhere. He knew EHJ from naval days and said that it should be a good school to join with such an ex-naval man at the helm. My father also played cricket for a navy team and liked the fact that cricket was esteemed so highly in the school. Not that I was much good at the game! On my first over in practice a guy called Allen hit nearly every one of my bowls for 6 whereas I could muster few runs myself. The D game squad for me! I did however follow the test matches. Frequently I went with my Dad to Lords and the Oval. Tennis playing came much later in life and has been enjoyed more.

3rd REPLY

NAME: Nigel Wood  Nigel Wood

DATE: 19 September 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1957-64

If you google "Ernest Harold Jenkins" you'll find at least one source offering to sell a copy of Jenkins's History of the French Navy. I didn't find a copy of Elizabethan Headmaster for sale, but I'd be delighted to loan you my copy.

4th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 30 September 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 56-63

Thanks for the offer of a loan of An Elizabethan Headmaster by EHJ but i shouldn't like it to get lost in transit somewhere. Maybe I could peruse a copy should someone bring a copy to one of the reunion days such as the OE Forty Plus Club dinner, which I hope to attend next month at the OE Pavilion in Gipsy Lane, or else at the OE Dinner Debate or Founders Day. Otherwise maybe there is a copy in the OE Museum at school, which can be read. Having had experience of the current state of the OE Association activities at the last Founders Day I am trying to be more pro-active in that regard as I am with various groups and the main college society at my old Cambridge college. I have been a prodigal for so long.

5th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 30 October 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 56-63

On a recent visit to Barnet Public Library (on Friday 26th October 2012) I enquired whether they had a copy of EHJ's book on QEs - An Elizabethan Headmaster. I was told that there was one copy in the reference section. On proceeding there I found the copy was missing. On the assumption that no-one else was reading it in the library (most likely to be the case on looking about me) I presume it has been stolen or "borrowed". On the unlikely thought that one of the contributors or readers to this site knows about this, would the person please return it or could somone who has a copy please leave it to the Library as a bequest in their will.

Whilst the copy of An Elizabethan Headmaster is missing, there is still a copy of A History of QE Grammar School by Cecil L Tripp (published 1935). I hope i may mention this in the hope that this too will not go for a walk outside the Library. (Can not modern technology have some device which will bleep if attempts are made to remove it just like elsewhere at stores?). It has interesting facts amongst so much else in regard to the New Building at Queens Road as well as the Old Building and also regarding the creation of the Girls' School.

In Cecil Tripp's book about the school there is information about EHJ, which others may find useful, as follows: Ernest Harold Jenkins (his nephew's website says E Herbert Jenkins - which is right?)- Headmaster from 1930. Was born 11/8/97. Educated at University College School 1909-16. Open Scholar Queens College Oxford 1915. BA 1921. MA 1925. Officer in HM Navy 1916-19. Senior History and 6th Form Master at Brockley School 1922-28. and at Hackney Downs (the Grocers' Company School) 1928-29.  Married 1928 Winifred, daughter of William J Miller of Willesden Green.

No mention is made in the nephew's website of when EHJ died, as I presume he is not still alive at 115 years old. I expect that there are Elizabethan and national / local press obituaries, which as a non-OE association man I have not seen. Would somone please supply copy to the site of either or give details as was done with Mr Lattimer, Eric Shirley and others?

6th REPLY

NAME: Nick Dean  Nick Dean Nick Dean gallery

DATE: 03 November 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71

Jenkins' second name was Harold and he died on 19 February 1985. This information is from an OE obituary notice that I retained with my copy of An Elizabethan Headmaster (purchased when I attended its launch at Gypsy Corner).

7th REPLY

NAME: Mike Cottrell  Richard Dilley & Mike Cottrell

DATE: 06 November 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64

I have come across an obituary of EHJ penned by Ken Carter and this might be the one referred to by Nick Dean [reply 6]. Strangely his date of death is given as 20th February 1985 and not the 19th. As Carter writes he died in his sleep I can only assume an estimation was made by the authorities.

8th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 08 November 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Thanks, Mike, for the obituary of EHJ being put on site. It deals of course with the name query I had [reply 5] and I am sure will be appreciated by any readers like me who have not been OE Association members over the years. It is of course written from the view of one who like many other OEs considered him a grand old man. Others may write an unofficial biograhy with a different point of view in the style of warts and all. Some more obituaries on the site of prominent old masters will also be appreciated by me and probably others.

9th REPLY

NAME: Nick Dean  Nick Dean Nick Dean gallery

DATE: 08 November 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71

Just for the record, Mike [reply 7], the notice I have re Jenkins' death was a short round robin to OEs [view] and not the KWC obituary. I assume that the date in the latter - ie 20/2 - should be regarded as definitive.

10th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 10 January 2013

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

I have now acquired a copy of A History of the French Navy by EHJ via the Wiltshire Library Service. Hampshire Library Service also has a copy. It was first published in 1973 by Macdonald of London at a then cost of £5. The blurb at the front says this is the first History of the French Navy to be published in English. In the past study of history I have read much about the conflicts with the Spanish and Dutch Navies, especially during the time of Queen Elizabeth 1 for the first and during the time of Charles 11 and Samuel Pepys for the latter. This book is well researched and written and I am enjoying reading it. Of course EHJ was a former reservist naval officer and my father Edward Philip James Cowen knew EHJ from naval days. My dad joined up in the RN at age 14 in 1916 and of course served in both the 1st and 2nd WWs as well as going on the Empire Cruise led by HMS Hood.

11th REPLY

NAME: Alan Pyle  Alan Pyle

DATE: 17 May 2013

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1948-1953

Do you recall E H J's book for English Lit: Prelude to Poetry?. 50 years later I wrote this recollection in Selective Education "You are ill-bred sons of ill-bred sires living in a decadent country". I quote. Staring to attention in the close school hall at the line of black gowns and the little pepper man who has just announced our rating to the world. Had we lost to Latymer again or fraternised in Wood Street? There was a general at his back, spying on his school about our miss demeanours. Maybe it was poetry and we were meant to recollect the resonance? My favorite teacher called him 'Fuhrer'. In the same place we took lunch, the dining hall was buried by the Blitz. Long tables with a master at each head a lottery for students sitting near. One gem from that same dissident calling the jam and semolina Loves Labours Lost. I was thirteen.

12th REPLY

NAME: Stephen Giles  Stephen Giles

DATE: 23 May 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64

Having just enjoyed watching the film "If........" for the upteenth time it made me think that discipline at QE was mild by comparison with the boarding school portrayed in that film. I wonder how Robert Swann's 'Rowntree' compared with the hideous school captain Fyler when I was in the first form?

13th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 29 June 2013

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

You certainly seem to have a real dislike, Stephen, and after all these years, for those old prefects Salter and Filer. I wonder if they really were much worse than other prefects, who were probably not appointed just to boss us about but as a mark of distinction for other achievements in school life, particularly in the school cricket and rugger sides and for something to put on their applications to university, especially to Oxbridge. I wonder how their lives developed after school and university, if they are still alive. I was recently at QEs for Founders Day along with my wife and brother John. He reminded me that when he came to school for interview with EHJ he was told off for having pens in his jacket front pocket by young Salter. To this he replied that Salter himself had pens in his front pocket. Young Salter then said "Well I've been at the school for some time, whilst you haven't even got in yet."

14th REPLY

NAME: Stephen Giles  Stephen Giles

DATE: 29 June 2012

CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64

You are 100% correct James, I have no time for petty arrogance or nasty people - plenty of time for Richard Thompson, The Albion Band, Fairport Convention, James McMurtry and of course Jeff Beck ......and very occasionally - Johnny Bach!!

15th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 02 July 2013

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In regard to WJ Filer I was able to look up entries in The Elizabethan of different years when attending the school at Founders Day. One of the Assistant Heads of the school, Mr D Ryan, opened up the school OE Museum and I had a good read of past copies. In the April 1958 copy in the write up for the 1st XV, WJ Filer is referred to as a centre three- quarters with more ideas than most of the side, but rather erratic in performance. He went to Caius College, Cambridge and in the Dec 1959 copy of the magazine is mentioned in The Cambridge Letter as follows: "WJ Filer (Caius) and RL Cairns (St Johns) are reputed to have been sampling the delights of Cambridge night life in the best Elizabethan style." Perhaps he wasn't too bad a chap, just entrapped in the questionable QE prefect/sub-prefect system. The whole process of having The Oxford Letter and The Cambridge Letter is interesting and tried to inculcate a certain message.

16th REPLY

NAME: Martyn Day  Martyn DayThen & Now

DATE: 02 July 2013

CONNECTION WITH QE: Inmate 1956-63

James Cowen's recent comment about why people were appointed prefects at Q.E "as a mark of distinction for other achievements in school life, particularly in the school cricket and rugger sides and for something to put on their applications to university, especially to Oxbridge" neatly summed up everything that I disliked about the school. I was never much good at cricket or rugby although I did try and as Jenkins told me when I was 16 I was not destined for Oxford or Cambridge. (He did offer the Church, the City or the Armed Forces as possible alternatives.) At the end of it I felt passed over although to be fair I did make once it as 'House Room Monitor'. Were it not for the kindness and patience of masters like Gerry Reid, Richard Dilley or Kaye Townsend who helped me find my first job in the film industry I would have considered my years at Q.E a waste of time and a waste of what talent I had. Grammar Schools may be good for some people but as evidenced by the pages of this website, not everyone.

17th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 03 July 2013

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

I agree with your comments, Stephen [reply 14] to the effect that there should be no time for petty arrogance nor for nastiness and certainly not for them to get accolades. This is surely one role a school should fulfill to inculcate politeness and as much goodness as they are able to encourage in pupils, no matter what your views on the general sinfulness of humanity. I am glad my children, educated at comprehensive schools and FE colleges, have learnt such virtues. and actually their academic, musical and sporting attainments were not hindered either. Maybe also prefects and sub-prefects, if you are going to have them, should learn the virtues of serving others in the school rather than having petty arrogance and displays of nastiness. Perhaps they do now. It was also good, Martyn, that the school had some masters who showed kindness and patience, especially for ones who did not shine in the fields EHJ held in high regard.

18th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 27 July 2013

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Having recently received again a newsletter from both my Cambridge college (the Sidney Sussex Phaeon) and the University (the Cam Newsletter) free of charge I wonder if the school should have adopted a similar name and address database and encouraged old scholars to let them know any changes of address. Most people seem to let my old college know and this clearly is also passed on to the University. I know this costs some money but there are always separate fundraising efforts both directly and indirectly by charging for reunion events. One can always join the OES but maybe many were put off from doing this like me for thinking it was just for sportsmen who wished to carry on playing rugger and/or cricket and at one time also athletics for the OEs. Once they also had a tennis section and now have a golf section. If there was such a database it would be possible to target classes of OEs such as the 1962 joiners or 1963 leavers to come to dinners.

19th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 21 January 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In connection with my last posting, I attended the last OE Association dinner and the OE Association treasurer was encouraging any OEs who are not Association members and who have not done so to send details of their address to the school to increase the database and if any know other OEs not included to encourage them to send details. The school would like to have a list to rival nearby public schools.

20th REPLY

NAME: Adam Lines  Adam LinesThen & Now

DATE: 25 January 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64

Call me a cynic Jas, but I do wonder whether The School could resist the temptation to access and explore the fund raising possibilities resident in an Alumni Database?
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