21st REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen    Then & Now

DATE: 02 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In respect of your reply 19, Paul, you really are going into the dim distant past pre-60 years ago in respect of the 107 and 306 routes. I find it hard to remember this and will consult my fellow ex-Borehamwood resident, Reg Green, at my local club where I play badminton and table tennis. Also, I can't also remember any bus strike in 1956 or 1957 and hope you and/or others can shed more light on this. Were these strikes for better pay or working conditions or both? Was it a national strike or a local one? Certainly I do remember cycling to school when there was some disruption in service but don't remember it being so long a period as 6 weeks. I can't recall what arrangements were made for extra cycles in addition to those traditionally using the old cycle shed at the rear of the school. To some extent age does catch up with some of us in recalling those days. I can't boast of too much but I do recall going to Leavesden to the bus garage with some local bus spotters.

22nd REPLY

NAME: Vic Coughtrey   Then & Now

DATE: 02 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-59

The London bus strike [see Paul's reply 19 and Jas's reply 21 above] was in fact in 1958. It was about pay and was absolutely solid, resulting in total shutdown of services (unlike transport strikes today). It lasted for six weeks during May and June.

I associate it with two things: EHJ and a squashed fly. It had come to Ernie's attention that QE boys had actually been seen thumbing lifts to school. "This will cease forthwith!" he thundered from the stage of the School Hall during assembly. "You will use the legs the Good Lord gave you!" Whereas the first part of that quote may not be word-for-word, the second part certainly is - it's one of those strings of words that have stuck brightly in my mind to this day as, for example, "greater than the bitterness we seek" from the pen of that great Andover Grammar School alumnus CJJ Berry (Home Brewed Beers & Stout). I myself never used buses to get to school, as there was no direct route from Duck's Island. I was perfectly happy to undertake the 20-minute walk twice a day, even in the severest weather. I did, however wonder about Borehamwood and Southgate boys having to use their God-gifted pins.

The squashed fly was a slowly decaying feature of my June 1958 copy of the Melody Maker, besmirchng the headline "Bus Strike Hits JATP". For those of you unfortunate enough not to know, JATP was Jazz at the Philharmonic, an American concert series which toured the UK from time to time. I still have that Melody Maker somewhere but all that remains of the fly corpse is a faded stain.

23rd REPLY

NAME: Nigel Wood  

DATE: 05 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64

Stephen writes [reply 20] of moving to Lullington Garth, Borehamwood. Strangely, there's also a Lullington Garth (a long road built up in the 1930s) on the edge of Woodside Park, between Finchley and Mill Hill. The Woodside Park one is named after Lullington in East Sussex. I deduce this from several of the roads in the area being named after places in Sussex. For example, there are two meeting mirror-image crescents, Chanctonbury Ring North and South. Kinda neat. But where did 'Garth' come from? I don't think there's a Sussex connection. I suppose it's an archaic or poetick form of 'garden', the sort of word an estate agent might like (no offence intended). Surely the road name in BW can't have been dreamt up independently. Same builder?

24th REPLY

NAME: Vic Coughtrey   Then & Now

DATE: 05 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-59

This website confirms your theory about the E.Susssex names, Nigel, and no doubt you're right about the Borehamwood Lullington Garth having the same developer (Fred Ingram). As for 'Garth', all I can offer is that it's Welsh for 'promontory' and there are quite a lot of place names in Wales that include the word. The ancestor of Welsh, Brithonic, which was once spoken throughout most of the British Isles, has left a few place names in England, mainly connected with water. 'Dover', for example, is closely related to the Welsh dwr which simply means 'water'. Similarly Dove Holes in Derbyshire means 'water holes' and 'Avon' just means 'river' - cf Welsh afon (so every River Avon is actually the River River). There are two big snags with my theory, of course: Lullington is some way from the coast and I can't actually see the word 'Garth' anywhere in E.Sussex! Going back to your suggestion of 'garden', the Welsh for 'garden' is gardd, the 'dd' being pronounced as the soft 'th' in English 'there'. But that word is from the same Norman French as 'garden', so there's little likelihood of an English place name being derived from it. Well, it was fun going into all that but not much help, I'm afraid!

25th REPLY

NAME: Nigel Wood  

DATE: 06 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64

Au contraire, Vic (re reply 24). Fascinating. Did you find out about Fred Ingram on the internet? Have to say I'd never heard of him. In our road of 1930s semis in Totteridge, there were two builders: Walker and Pilgrim. To all but the sharpest observer their houses were indistinguishable. Astonishing that our house (and presumably the others) didn't have cavity walls. My Chambers derives 'garth' from Old Norse gartr (how cheeky of your system to keep changing it to 'garter'!) meaning 'court'. It hints at connections with 'yard', which it derives from garten (German) and, further back, hortus (Latin). At the top end of Lullington Garth, beginning the green gap separating Finchley from Mill Hill, there was a field dedicated as a home of rest for retired Express Dairy horses. At the edge of it were three or four small houses for retired Express Dairy employees. These always seemed to me like an afterthought.

26th REPLY

NAME: Vic Coughtrey   Then & Now

DATE: 07 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-59

Well, that blows my theory about a Welsh/Brithonic connection off the promontory! It didn't even occur to me that there might be an English word 'garth', etymologically unconnected with the Welsh one! I now find that 'garth' is in fact quite common in English street and area names, either on its own ('The Garth') or as part of the name. Google 'Garth' plus any town and the word is quite likely to crop up. It looks as though Mr Ingrams (of whom I had indeed never heard before googling 'Woodside Park') was just following a fashion of the time.

Does anyone else have any other interesting facts or queries about street or place names in the (perhaps former) QE catchment area?

27th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen    Then & Now

DATE: 08 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In respect of the bus routes for 107 and 306 in 1956 and 1957 [reply 21], I used to go down to Shenley Road in Borehamwood and travel all round the LCC estate route but from 1958 used to catch it along with my brother John from the Ashley Drive end of the route. There was often a great dash of many of us to get down the hill as we saw the buses arriving round the corner. Even if missed we were generally OK as the two buses invariably came along together. I believe all the LCC houses on the route were in place in 1956 but I remember the houses in Arundel Drive at the end by Furzehill Road were still being built at around that time. A group of us from Summerswood would clamber over the houses being constructed, perhaps with H&S no longer possible these days. On the way to QEs for FD this year I travelled via Borehamwood and saw 292 buses in Furzehill Road and along Elstree Way (if still so named). Would like to find out the exact routes of this sometime.

28th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen    Then & Now

DATE: 10 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Thanks for the info, Vic [reply 22]. I was right in respect of the years. it was 1958 and not 1956/7. I was wrong in respect of the period not being perhaps as long as 6 weeks. Actually on the Internet on one site, 7 weeks is quoted. I do have many thoughts further about all this and will perhaps continue at a later date. I expect others do remember more than I.

29th REPLY

NAME: Alan Pyle  

DATE: 11 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1948-1953

!07: Drayton Road to Enfield Lock or Ponders End. 306: Leavesden or Watford Junction to High Barnet. There were usually a couple of 107s and a 306 which got us on time to school from the Elstree Way request stop at the foot of Manor Way. No pedestrian crossing till a pupil was killed there running for the bus. The early 107s ran Type G (Guy?) which was a utility model with wooden seats. The country 306s were pre-war stock. Much excitement when this route got type RT, a real luxury ride. Being on time was always a challenge. To catch that 306 was cutting it fine and sometimes there were hold-ups. Getting onto the by-pass at The Thatched Barn for one. A simple T-junction then before a fly-over was constructed or the road duelled. Then fog or a bus breakdown. EHJ did not accept any excuse and lines would follow the unhappy B'wood 'late again' file outside his office. Once the 306 bus conductress was actually taken ill at the Crown and it was very late at our stop. That did not wash either.

The 'Lateness secret' was taught to me in the 5th form. Late one morning on that 306 my fellow pupil said we would go on into town for a coffee. He explained that later, when the surveillance was much weaker, we would slip into school and just join the day. It worked, feeling like members of a Stalag, only breaking in this time.

30th REPLY

NAME: Ian Sadler  

DATE: 12 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1951-58

Wee ammendment [to Alan's reply above] - in my time the 306 ran through High Barnet to New Barnet Station.

Yes, and the 107 usually ran between Queensbury station and Enfield Lock or Ponders End, but was liable to terminate at a number of other places en route, especially the Arkley Hotel.

31st REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen    Then & Now

DATE: 12 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

I think you are right, Vic, to query how many from Borehamwood and Woodside Park go to QEs these days [reply 26, 2nd para], what with 2000 applying from all over London and miles away in e.g North Herts for 180 year 7 places. Where do ex-Summerswood and Cowley Hill pupils go these days?

32nd REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen    Then & Now

DATE: 12 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

I found this [replies 23-28] all very fascinating, this talk about the origin of 'Garth' and in particular Lullington Garth in Borehamwood and Woodside Park. Of course Lullington Garth was in the 1950/60s a recent road in comparison with the much older established Borehamwood roads but I for one should like to know the origins of the Borehamwood names also. Were these a council or builder's decision? For instance Manor Way: was there an old manor in that area? As regards the fairly new Carrington Avenue next to Lullington Garth did someone foretell Dynasty? Maybe the new Borehamwood Museum has some answers. Where I live in Ludgershall, Wilts, recent namings have been partly builders' and partly council decisions. The builder Mr Larkin has a close named after him and also a court named after his wife (Larkin Close and Violet Court) whilst Levell Court is named after our long standing ex-town clerk now no longer alive. In regard to the Wood of Boreham and Ludgershall they both appear in the Domesday Book of William the Conqueror.

33rd REPLY

NAME: Nick Dean   

DATE: 14 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71

Those with memories of the 306 [replies 27,29,30], which some of my contemporaries pronounced "throx", may wish to see this photo taken at Potters Bar Garage in July 2012. Living the other side of New Barnet, I used the 107 (sometimes known as "woz"). At the time I think it had the longest route of any red London bus.

34th REPLY

NAME: Alan Pyle  

DATE: 14 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1948-1953

Thanks for the 306 amendment [reply 30]. However I was sure that in my day the 107 terminus was in B'wood and so was till 1954. See the excellent website London Buses by Ian Armstrong. All the vehicle types used on the routes are listed too!

Yes, I should have added "in my day" to my green comment, meaning from when I started at QE in '54 to when I left Barnet in the early '60s.

35th REPLY

NAME: Alan Pyle  

DATE: 14 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1948-1953

Re Road Names [reply 32], Bullhead Road from Elstree Way led to Bullbaiters Farm opposite the Cinder Path. The post-war Cranes Way probably refers to Cranes Farm which stood more or less where the Directors Arms is today. Through the war Bullbaiters was derelict but standing and Cranes Farm still a working enterprise. In Borehamwood in the later 1930s John Laing had begun to lay out a large estate of houses and factories to be a 'Garden City Estate' (Alan Jackson, Semi-detached London). It was stopped suddenly in 1939 at "around 40 houses and 6 factories". I recall footings abandoned and road ends tapering into fields some of which were returned to farming. A sawmill for the timber in the houses on Manor Way was turned over to constructing prefabricated wooden huts. Manor, Thornbury, Ripon, Kenilworth, Chester, Warwick and Dacre were all Laing Estate names. The area now Ripon Park I remember as the nursery for the amenity trees to be planted on the roads which were never completed by that developer. After the war the same area was developed for the then LCC.

36th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen    Then & Now

DATE: 17 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In my reply 27 I made reference to "Elstree Way (if still so named)". I was in fact joking about this and Elstree Way is still the name and has not been renamed Borehamwood or Hertsmere Way. Some buses did of course terminate at the Elstree Way Hotel (no longer there). I like all the bus correspondence to date and especially the London Bus Route website of Ian Armstrong [see reply 34] Thanks, Alan, for that.

37th REPLY

NAME: Martyn Day   Then & Now

DATE: 17 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Inmate 1956-63

... and talking of Green Line buses as we once were [reply 9 & others], Britain's first authentic, self-generated rock 'n' roll song Move It was written in 1958 on the 715 Green Line bus taking Cliff Richard's backing group The Drifters to a practise session at Cliff's house in Cheshunt. A number of QE boys lived in the town and knew Cliff, including my friend Tony Lyons. John Lennon once said, "Before Move It there was nothing".

38th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen    Then & Now

DATE: 21 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

I find it interesting to see entries from one who was from Borehamwood and at the school from before I started, Alan. My wife does not like us being regarded as old as in OAP but prefers 'senior citizen'. You are thus a more senior citizen but do you regard yourself as old? What is old these days? I suppose it depends on the age of whoever is looking at us. When at school I regarded anyone of 21 being very old indeed. I wonder incidentally who are the oldest in the OE lists of members. I think maybe there are some still there who aged 11 remember the move of the school to the Stapylton Field site. They would be in their mid-90s now  I will ask Alan King, membership secretary, if I see him soon. My wife and I use our senior bus passes often and I would like to stay around Borehamwood for a couple of weeks and travel again on buses around there. On Founders Day this year we used the current 107 from Queens Road to Arkley Hotel, a short run but a little nostalgic.

According to the register of contributors, Philip Ward is our most senior contributor (in the sense of age, not number of years contributing). He started at the school in 1935, so should be around 90 now. Haven't heard from you for about a year, Philip!<

39th REPLY

NAME: Stephen Giles  

DATE: 21 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64

At my QE entrance interview with EJH, seeing that I lived in Lullington Garth, he asked me if I knew what a Garth was [see replies 23-26]. I forget what I answered, which of course was wrong, but he told me that a garth was the cloisters situated around a quadrangle in a monastery - so there you go! As to Lullington Garth in Finchley, this was the home of Frith Manor School, where the head back in the 60s was one J H Giles. This sometimes led to some confusion after my Dad - J L Giles, became head of Foulds School around 1967, and to a lesser extent before that when both were involved with Hendon Schools football.

40 REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen    Then & Now

DATE: 24 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Alan [reply 34], you and the website London Buses you quote are of course right about the 107 buses terminating at Drayton Road in Borehamwood until 1954. I remember them well before going up to QEs. There used to be another route bus that used to leave from Drayton Road of course. This was the green painted country bus that used to go up to Shenley and on to St Albans. My dad used to catch it as he worked at Shenley Mental Hospital as a telephonist. I am pretty sure the number was 358 but I note the bus on the website with that number is now in a different area altogether on the Crystal Palace to Orpington route. I haven't yet investigated whether there is a country bus route website like the London area bus routes one. There is now no 52 bus route in Borehamwood to Victoria, which apparently started in 1934 and would appear now to run to Willesden Bus Garage.

I find it interesting that it was not until 1.5.57 that the 107 bus went on the new route through Borehamwood via the housing estates (Warwick road, Chester Road, Balmoral Drive, Ashley Drive). Presumably those living in those areas had to either walk or use the 52 route via Manor Way to get either to Elstree Way or Sterling Corner. As I have said elsewhere [reply 27] I walked to Shenley Road. All of this was of course so long ago that I don't recall other pupils movements exactly. As I have said [reply 38] I enjoyed our little trip on the 107 recently. Sometime I'd like to do a longer trip.