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WIDER WORLD
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ORIGINAL MESSAGE

NAME: Vic Coughtrey  Vic CoughtreyThen & Now

DATE: 03 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1954-59

Another strong theme has been emerging for some time in Thread 108 and although that thread is still not a restricted topic thread - that is, it can still meander where it will - I've decided that the discussion of your home patch while at QE should, like the Stately homes theme in Thread W8, have its own thread - this one. Please read the the relevant replies in Thread 108 first, to avoid repeating their content in W9. You can still respond to replies in 108, but if the subject is Borehamwood, Barnet, Southgate or anywhere else where you lived while at QE your reply will appear in this thread instead, with a link back to 108.

RESTRICTED THREAD: please make Borehamwood, Barnet, Southgate or anywhere else where you lived while at QE the main subject of your reply.

1st REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 03 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Thanks for your reply [39 in Thread 108], Roger. I will submit what you have said to my friend Reg at our Peter Pan club. I have a vague recollection of the Mops and Brooms, formerly the Nelson. Reg used to go to Campions Secondary Modern in Borehamwood with its rose emblem. I remember our Links basketball team used to play them. They had England players playing for them and used to trounce our team, which included myself.

In relation to pubs in the Borehamwood /Elstree /Arkley /Barnet areas and in the light of the great closure of pubs nationwide I see that many of the ones of our youth still remain. The Arkley, Gate and Black Horse in Arkley and Barnet are still there, though the menu for food at the Arkley is highly priced. There was little we could really afford on our last visit. In Elstree the Hollybush and Plough are still there, as is the Fishery Inn by Aldenham Reservoir. The 2 pubs we used to walk to frequently outside Borehamwood, the Waggon and Horses on the A5 Watling Street and the Battle Axes near Elstree aerodrome still remain. I enjoyed many interesting chats with others in those two. Nowadays when in Borehamwood we tend to use the Weatherspoons pub in Shenley Road, the Hart and Spool, besides eating McDonalds fare at the Red Lion that was. We have not yet been in the Wishing Well.

2nd REPLY

NAME: Adam Lines  Adam LinesThen & Now

DATE: 04 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64

Continuing the Elstree Studios theme from Thread 108, replies 37 & 38, I happened to click on the early Saturday morning B&W film presentation on BBC2 of School for Scoundrels - a 1960 classic! What caught my attention was a scene where some famous members of the cast (which included Ian Carmichael, Alastair Sim, Terry Thomas, Jannette Scott) boarded two 107 buses and proceeded to chase each other through a Borehamwood Council estate! Apart from the total absence of any cars parked in the streets, it did remind me of waiting for the 107 at the end of Queens Road only to have one pull up to be told that "we're full up but there's another one coming". On one occasion, a QE lad who had managed to get aboard, felt obliged to rise and offer a particularly large lady in the queue his seat, in consequence of which he had to get off and wait for 30 minutes for the next one. Modesty prevents me saying anything further other than I missed my tea!

3rd REPLY

NAME: Roger Nolan  Roger Nolan

DATE: 05 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1960 to 1967

Mention of Ian Carmichael (2nd Reply) amused me because for a brief period at the end of the sixties and the beginning of the seventies, I was his accountant. His cousin Tom Carmichael was a partner in the City firm of accountants I was articled to. Ian Carmichael lived in a lovely house at the end of Nan Clark's Lane near the end of Hendon Wood Lane and I used to spend a few days each summer working in his study there. He was a charming man. He occasionally used to drink in the Bell at Arkley, now known as the Gate, as also did Trevor Howard who lived in Arkley village.

4th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 10 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Talk of the original School for Scoundrels film reply 2] really takes me back to the days of my youth. I also remember well the books One Upmanship and Lifemanship. I probably saw the film at the cinema when it came out in 1960 and certainly have seen it on TV in recent times. I enjoy seeing Elstree Studios (Warner/Pathe) films with scenes of Borehamwood. I saw one and only one that went down the whole of Shenley Road (Borehamwood's High Street). I consider of course Terry Thomas, Ian Carmichael and Alistair Sims very fine actors as well as Janette Scott as an actress. As regards Adam's memories of giving up seats on buses [also reply 2] I too used to do the same and now appreciate in my comparative dotage having many a person offering up their seat on the buses for me to sit down. The health experts, however, seem to say we should stand more for our health rather than being seated too much.

5th REPLY

NAME: Nick Dean  Nick Dean Nick Dean gallery

DATE: 12 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71

I've seen School for Scoundrels heaven knows how many times and always look out for the 107. I remember especially the perfectly cast Janette Scott in Ian Carmichael's dressing gown as Terry-Thomas berated him - "you swine!" (he probably said that anyway). In her private life, she had a penchant for American singers: she was certainly married to Mel Torme and either Jackie or Johnny Rae (Ray), probably the former, but I'm not sure in what order. The first Christmas present my wife bought me was a biography of Stephen Potter (author of the One-Upmanship books). Occasionally I still use the 'but not in the south' ploy if someone gets too garrulous about his or her travels.

6th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 17 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In connection with the 1st reply I spoke to my friend Reg Green at the Peter Pan club, Andover, and he said that some film stars did go to the Mops and Brooms in Well End. Alfie Bass for one used to be seen there. More were seen at Elstree Way Hotel just outside the main village opposite the main factories site. The Borehamwood web site mentions Robert Mitchum was often seen drinking in the Red Lion. In the Thatched Barn (the restaurant/ entertaining complex by the A1 by-pass) website it says film stars known to have visited it included Bette Davis. Of course some big Hollywood stars used to stay at the Grosvenor (no longer there) in Shenley Road opposite the Red Lion. I once went for a meal with a friend Jim at the Thatched Barn and paid for part of it in postage stamps. I knew that I wouldn't have enough cash as soon as he asked for a pudding, delicious raspberries and cream.

7th REPLY

NAME: Nick Dean  Nick Dean Nick Dean gallery

DATE: 18 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71

I imagine that Bette Davis was at the Thatched Barn in the mid '60s when she made The Anniversary at Elstree. This was a rather entertaining black/sex comedy, whose cast included Sheila Hancock (best known at the time for The Rag Trade) and the somewhat forgotten - though not by me - Elaine Taylor, who has been married for many years to Christopher Plummer (he of the Sound of Music). Taylor started in radio comedy and was one of the Bond girls in Casino Royale (the '60s spoof one) with Jacqueline Bisset and Alexandra Bastedo, who sadly died a few months ago. I remember AB not just for The Champions (which was also made at Elstree), but because, in my first job after graduating, I worked with her sister-in-law.

8th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 23 March 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Thanks, Nick, for the further info about Bette Davis and others in your 7th reply. In connection with your 5th reply from your wonderful memory about Janette Scott, we do of course now have the Internet and Wikipedia for information, which despite being open to contributors I think is usually correct. Janette Scott's third marriage after Jackie Rae and Mel Tormé is to William Radmaekers since 1981. As a married man of 42+ years I still find it remarkable how many couples split up despite the wives being seemingly such a good catch. What was Mr Saatchi thinking to let the cooking goddess Nigella Lawson go with so many licking their lips along with her delightful cookery programmes? I say to my wife along with that lady in David Copperfield "I never will leave Mrs Cowen. Don't ask me to. I won't do it." I believe my wife when she says the same to me. I might like to go and marry many a girl but my wife won't let me.

9th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 29 May 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Reminiscing about that phone box in Furzehill Road, Borehamwood in thread 112 got me thinking again about that bus stop nearby. This was for my dad, brother and I the escape from Borehamwood to whole new areas. Elstree and Borehamwood station was the gateway to Kentish Town and then onwards to Barking and onwards to Southend. Far nearer was that bus stop where stopped on request the green line coaches routes 712 and 713, which took us southwards to Baker Street (for onwards transfer to our Auntie Maud, Uncle Chris and family in Millwall - the Isle of Dogs) and Victoria (for onward transfer to those other coastal places - Brighton and Bognor to name the two most visited.) We children loved the wait for the coach at Baker Street, where the expresso café served those lovely glasses of frothy hot milk to enjoy on the cold days. I have not travelled on a green line coach for many years but perhaps others enjoyed similar escapes.

10th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 02 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In relation to Borehamwood does anyone know when the Finsbury Park running track by Stirling Corner stopped being used and why the local council did not take it on, presumably when Finsbury Park got their own more local running track? Maybe the fairly newly formed Borehamwood Museum has the answer. I hope to pay it a visit when next in the area for some considerable time. In my earlier student years many hours were spent running round the track and taking part in other events for Borehamwood Athletic Club, referred to elsewhere on this site. I used to write up reports for the Elstree and Borehamwood Post, which perhaps continues.

Was it not the former Metropolitan Borough of Finsbury (covering the Moorgate area) that owned the land? Finsbury Park was not in Finsbury but in the MB of Islington. I suspect when the MBs of Islington and Finsbury merged to form the new LB of Islington in the '60s, external playing fields were no longer required (Islington had some open space, Finsbury had barely a square inch).

11th REPLY

NAME: Paul Buckland

DATE: 02 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1962 - 1969

Jas, Thank you for that trip down memory lane! [Reply 9]. We lived at the top end of Furzehill Road opposite the other Green Line bus stop. My grandma who lived with us used this service extensively to visit relatives in Surrey. From the age of 9 I also used the service, on my own, to go to London to have lunch with my father who would meet me at Baker St, my mother having put me on the coach in BW. I personally preferred the Green Line stops at Victoria which seemed to me a much bigger, and to my young imagination more romantic, interchange than Baker Street - although there were no refreshment kiosks at Victoria. We always had a lunch at the Golden Egg in Baker Street. Another great joy, for me, was the bus station at Golders Green where the bus did a complete circuit through the station yard.

I suspect that the demise of this excellent service came about because the schedules could no longer be met due to the increasingly heavy traffic in Central London, although I believe that the name still exists on some of the services to Luton, Stanstead and Gatwick. On the 712 and 713 we never got the RMC coaches that were used through Barnet but we did, very occasionally get an RF Observation Coach which had windows in the sloping sides of the roof.

Your mention of the telephone box in Furzehill Road (opposite Hillside Avenue) reminds me of another Greenline incident when I was about 10. I had been upto London for a dental appointment and was returning to Furzehill School. I was just getting off the Greenline at the Hillside Avenue bus stop when I bumped into Harry Gustine (ex Furzehill, ex QE) returning to school from lunch. He immediately advised me that the world was going to end at 2p.m that afternoon and I spent a miserable afternoon at school, expecting each moment to be my last.

12th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 05 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In relation to your response to my reply 10, Vic [green note] you are of course correct that the borough of Finsbury was abolished in 1965 and absorbed into the borough of Islington. As far as I can see, though, Finsbury Park was very much a separate entity from Finsbury and though Finsbury Park Station has its station listed as under the local authority of the London Borough of Islington the vast park of Finsbury Park is listed as part of Haringey Council. Two years ago on 1.6.2012 the leaders of Islington and Haringey Councils and the Mayor of Hackney signed the Finsbury Park Accord to work to try to develop for the better Finsbury Park town centre and neighbourhood, which apparently is one of the most deprived areas in the country despite the nearness of the Finsbury Park park. I note that the Enfield and Haringey Athletic Club use the running track in the park but do not know if local schools use it. Maybe school athletes are encouraged to join the club.

I was there [at Stirling Corner] when the Finsbury Park running track was officially opened by the Duke of Edinburgh on behalf of the National Playing Fields Association, primarily for the use of schools in Finsbury Park, though we in Borehamwood Athletic Club and others such as a runner from an FE college in Bucks also had good use of it. Did the running track at Finsbury Park park then exist? I suspect not and presumably when built Finsbury Park schools could use that as well as the local athletic club. That is unless athletics were abolished in the Finsbury Park schools and athletes join the club instead. No matter! I still lament that Hertsmere Council did not take it on for the benefit of Borehamwood and other local athletes. Do Finsbury Park or Haringey or Islington still own the site. Maybe a google search will reveal.

13th REPLY

NAME: Vic Coughtrey  Vic CoughtreyThen & Now

DATE: 05 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-59

Jas, I was trying to point out in my green note to your reply 10 that the Finsbury Playing Fields & running track (later Stirling Corner Sports Ground, owned by the Borough of Barnet) had nothing at all to do with Finsbury Park but were owned by the Borough of Finsbury, which had no open space within its own boundaries. I was of course wrong about Finsbury Park (the park not the town) being included in the new LB of Islington but even without that, the new borough had numerous sports grounds of its own, so the Stirling Corner site was no longer needed. You are remembering the site as the Finsbury Park track but my memory (and this site) tell me it was just Finsbury.

14th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 07 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

In relation to your 11th reply, Paul, I too have fond memories of Golders Green station and the green line rushing out and doing a complete circuit of the station yard whilst all those red London Transport buses seemed to dawdle about as they went in and out. Talking of the horrendous traffic south of there, sometimes when missing the green line in London rather than waiting another hour, we used to go up on the Edgware branch of the Northern Line in order to try to beat the coach (Often successful!). Even in our day traffic south of there was indeed horrendous in single lines of traffic. Maybe it hasn't improved despite the Mayor of London's congestion charge but I hardly think it could have got worse. Golders Green has many other happy childhood memories. We used to go every year to the Golders Green Hippodrome to watch the pantomime there. Glorious days of Arthur Askey as Widow Twankee as well as Lupino Lane!

15th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 14 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

I note that main thread 149 has begun to deviate in typical Stapylton Field style from postings about famous OEs to various places postings such as Barnet and South and North Mymms or Mimms, albeit with an original connection either with non-OEs such as Admiral Byng or OEs such as Freddie Brittain. Perhaps new 'places' posts should go to this thread as declared by you, Vic. To start on this I was surprised in your Google map of Barnet how few surrounding areas I have been to and explored, given my usual nosy nature. One such area is Whalebone Park just along from Queens Road. I remember the whale jaw bones forming the arch at the entrance passed by nearly every day. I have never been in the park. Has anyone else? I notice from the Web that there is a Grade 2 listed building in the park. Is it ever open to the public to view?

In relation to Wrotham Park, talked about by Nick Dean in thread 149/26, I notice that the section on filming location in Wikipedia no reference is made to Lady Chatterley's Lover filming there (though reference is made in the Wikipedia entries relating to the novel.) Perhaps someone could add this to Wrotham Park. I tried to be a contributor [to Wikipedia] but was not able to due to using the libraries for my entries.

I note two social events mentioned on Wikipedia, in relation to Wrotham Park. Ashley Cole and Cheryl Tweedy had their wedding blessed there on 15th July 2006 and Simon Cowell held his 50th birthday party there, estimated to have cost £1 million, on 3 October 2009 Clearly it is regarded by some as a distinguished place and I will have to look at my copy of ITV's Jeeves and Wooster TV series or the film Gosforth Park in order to see its glory for myself. I note also location scenes for the idents of the Dave channel were also shot there. I also was made aware of the English contract law case of Wrotham Park Estate Co Ltd v Parkside Homes Ltd, a case where a provision of restricted covenants unlike mine and Nigel Wood's did matter. [See Thread 149/21,22].

16th REPLY

NAME: Nick Dean  Nick Dean Nick Dean gallery

DATE: 16 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71

Yes, I'd forgotten that Wrotham Park was a location in Jeeves and Wooster - presumably Brinkley Court, the home of Aunt Dahlia. In that context, it's been overshadowed by Highclere Castle, which was used as Totleigh Towers (home of Sir Watkyn Bassett) but is now better known as Downton Abbey. When we went there a few years ago, we were quite bemused by the number of people who thought it really was Downton Abbey, referred to it as such and demanded to know where Lady Mary's bedroom was, etc, etc.

17th REPLY

NAME: James (Jas) Cowen  James & Ayleen Cowen James Cowen galleryThen & Now

DATE: 19 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63

Further to mine and Paul's entries on Green Line coaches (my 9th and 14th and Paul's 11th replies) of course the 712 and 713 did not only go south but also north. My dad, brother John and I enjoyed lovely trips up to Dunstable Downs, Whipsnade Zoo, Ivinghoe Beacon and Ashridge Woods. Perhaps others of my age or slightly younger will also recall similar journeys out to such places. We did not have a car in our household until some years later when my brother passed his test and graduated from a Renault van to a Renault car after riding 650 cc motorcycles. Later my Dad bought a Ford Anglia car, which he never drove but relied on others to drive him about in. He had one of those licences from when you never had to pass a test but he never felt confident with increased traffic volumes. He never let on whether he drove in his earlier navy years nor indeed disclosed much at all about the navy and the First World War.

18th REPLY

NAME: Nigel Wood  Nigel Wood

DATE: 21 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64

I can't remember the numbers of the Greenline buses through Whetstone on the old Great North Road, but the Southbound ones went through central London and out to wonderful-sounding places in far off Kent, Surrey or Sussex. One of the destinations was Wrotham in Kent. (This is (or was) pronounced "Rootem"; don't know whether this applies also to Wrotham Park.) Getting into London on a Greenline (or even a red bus) was much more fun than using the Northern Line. One route forked right at Tally Ho Corner and went via the Naked Lady and Golders Green. Almost as far as Finchley Road station there were vestiges of the road's rural past; a particular favourite, somewhere near Hampstead, was a tree-lined stretch. The trees almost met overhead ...

The routes through Barnet that I knew were the 714, 716 & 717 and the magical names on the fronts included Dorking, Luton, Chertsey and Hitchin.

19th REPLY

NAME: Paul Buckland

DATE: 24 June 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1962 - 1969

With all the correspondence about Green Lines and other bus routes, how many of the Boreham Wood crowd remember that the 107 and 306 did not always go through the council estate? The buses used to go right along Elstree Way past the MGM studios and then join the A1 where the flyover now is. This, I believe, was changed only after the LT bus strike (which I think lasted 6 weeks in either 56 or 57). Both these routes were quite lengthy and I always wanted to go on the 306 from New Barnet Stn all the way to Leavesden (Ganders Ash) which seemed a wonderful place for a bus terminus. My favourite route was always the 140 from Mill Hill to London Airport (as it was then called). Two shillings and sixpence for a Red Rover and that was all you needed, the terraces were free and accessible and, with luck, you sometimes saw a Boeing 707.

And there were sometimes air shows at Rolls-Royce Leavesden aerodrome.

20th REPLY

NAME: Stephen Giles  Stephen Giles

DATE: 01 July 2014

CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64

I remember the Greenline buses very well. When I first moved to Lullington Garth in Borehamwood at the beginning of 1955, I travelled to Golders Green on the 713 (or was it 712?) from the bus stop at the top of Furzehill Road and then caught a trolleybus to Garden Suburb School at Temple Fortune. Usually this was with my Dad who taught at that school, but occasionally by myself. However, a sharp letter from Herts CC, which I still have somewhere, instructed my parents to send me to Summerswood School in Borehamwood!
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