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81st REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean
.JPG "Nick Dean gallery")
DATE: 23 August 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
Good to see somebody setting her face against ridiculous words. In a recent edition of Only Connect on BBC2, an answer was revealed to be 'enthronement' (as in the Coronation service), to which Victoria Coren added, "It says on my card, 'also accept enthronisation'. I most certainly will not!"
Then & NowDATE: 25 August 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Inmate 1956-63
You might think the word enthronisation sounds like something that George Bush had coined. Yet it has been in use longer than enthronement, which is not known until 1685. Two centuries earlier, Malory was writing of intronyscacyon in the Morte d'Arthur. In the succeeding centuries the word was applied to Archbishops of Canterbury, to the King, the Great Sophi of Persia, the Pope, the Ark of the Covenant and to Satan. Enthronisation is not just a word from distant centuries. 'The enthronisation of Dr Randall Davidson as Archbishop of Canterbury will take place on February the 12,' ran a short newspaper report in 1903. The term did not seem out of place.
'Enthronegenesis'? Now that definitely doesn't sound right.83rd REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 26 August 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
Well, it's a fair cop, guv [reply 82], and one feels suitably humble, if not exactly blessed. Thanks to Martyn for a fascinating reply. Interestingly enough, the full order of service for the Coronation in 1953 (which I have in an original copy of the Radio Times) describes the relevant part as "the enthroning" (which Only Connect didn't offer at all). There are contemporaneous reports of the "enthronement" of both Davidson and his successor, Cosmo Lang, in 1928; and Humphrey Carpenter's biography of Robert Runcie quotes letters in which the archbishop refers to his forthcoming enthronement. But perhaps these examples are beside the original point.
84th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen
.jpg "James Cowen gallery")
Then & NowDATE: 31 August 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
No matter about the merits of enthronement, enthronisation or the enthroning (though I enjoyed reading the discourse [replies 81-83] ), I certainly liked the way Victoria Coren Mitchell replied to the request to her on Only Connect, as I do so many of her comments, not just on Only Connect but also on Have I got newe for you. I like also what she has to say in the poker tournaments she has competed in. Anyway if one with a first class degree in English from Oxford University gets the use of words wrong what hope is there for the rest of us? I also liked the edition of Gogglebox when some of the regulars talked about Only Connect and its presenter in their usual amusing ignorant way. ("Whoever is this posh girl anyway and why does she talk down to people in so snobbish a way?" or words to that effect.) In regard to her marriage to David Mitchell I cerainly enjoyed his account of the long wait before eventually he proposed and they got married. Now they have a young baby of a few months old.
<85th REPLY
NAME: Nigel Wood.jpg "Nigel Wood")
DATE: 31 August 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
Two notices I spotted recently in hotels, and which I thought fellow pedants would enjoy ... "For reasons of safety this heated towel-rail has been disconnected." [So how does it manage to stay heated?] "Please refrain from adjusting the speed of this toaster or from inserting pastries into this toaster." [NIce to be given the choice.]
86th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 18 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
My son Matthew was recently rebuked by his mother and father-in-law for using the term 'normalcy' (rather than 'normality') in a public meeting he was addressing. It would appear that Americanism (or is it Americanisation?) can affect us all but I for one will also still use 'normality'. Or 'Americanization'?
87th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 23 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Two other words were recently heard on Radio 4 that I believe are also off kilter. Something was described as 'fictitional' rather than 'fictional' and 'miserableness' rather than 'misery', though that may be more debatable. Keep them coming, folks, as they say.
DATE: 24 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1960 to 1967
One that really grates with me is the current fashion (especially amongst TV presenters) to pronounce 'homage' with a silent 'H' and to rhyme it with fromage. It smacks to me of affectation. Also on the subject of H, there is an increasing habit of adding an extra H when pronouncing the letter 'aitch' as in 'haitch'. Where did that one come from?
DATE: 26 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: inmate 1957-64
It may originate from "Essex Girl" or some other hideous inverted working class bumbledom, or possibly from Lesser Croydon - and believe me, some is very less!
DATE: 26 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
'Should of' instead of 'should have' and Americanisms that seem to be creeping into BBC news reports. One that partcularly annoys me is the 'word' envision. Mind you I've had extensve dealings with journalists and regard them as some way below estate agents for telling the truth.
91st REPLY
NAME: Nigel WoodDATE: 26 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
I once read that the rule at the Times was to use 'ize' when the word was derived from the Greek, otherwise, 'ise' [See Vic's green footnote to reply 86]. So it would be 'Americanise', as Americo Vespucci wasn't Greek. Clearly I've retained something from RMC's Geography 'lessons'. (But Google 'Hellenize' for irony.) My point was that Merriam Webster would '-ize' it whatever.
92nd REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 26 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
Shortly after reading Roger's reply 88, an unusually bright contestant on Countdown - one just out of short trousers, or maybe still in - spelled out 'maillot' (ballet tights) and pronounced the third letter as "hi", which I think is less common than 'haitch'. I must say I don't greatly object to 'haitch', which I've always assumed stemmed from people thinking they're doing the right thing, knowing that the 'h' is frequently dropped (as indeed it was, even in polite circles, in Victorian times in words like hospital and hotel).
Then & NowDATE: 26 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-59
My grandmother would say things like "I fink I'll 'ave a nice 'ard-boiled hegg". When I mocked her for this inconsistency (seeing as I was 'up the Grammar' and therefore all-knowing) she would reply "In my day we were taught to pronounce our haitches. They don't teach you nuffink these days".
DATE: 27 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 1962 - 1969
I was delighted to note that Derek is also upset by the use of 'of' instead of 'have' as in 'would have'. I even came across the expression in The Times recently, they really should know better. Other expressions which I find grating are 'grow' in we are trying to 'grow the business', you expand your business you grow beans and cucumbers. Two other words or phrases which tend to be overused, especially on the Today programme, normally by interviewees are 'going forward' (whatever is wrong with 'in the future'?) and the ubiquitous 'stakeholder' normally used by someone discussing the NHS or other government agency. It must be age but I get quite hot under the collar when hearing these phrases used and now resort to having a permanent slanging match with the radio.
Then & NowDATE: 27 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1954-59
In general, I find myself less irritated by bad grammar and inappropriate usage than by verbal fashions that enslave presenters, journalists and script writers, sometimes for several years, before slowly dying out. Thank God 'at the end of the day' and 'upping the anti' have all but disappeared after their long tenures. However, there's always something waiting round the corner to take over as the mot(s) du jour. 'Iconic' is the current reigning demon (27 times in one edition of Springwatch), although there are signs that its grip is slackening already. But what will be the next dripping tap? I think what gets me even more than hearing the same handful of words or phrases, like slow-mo mantras that go on for a very long time, is the fact that the phenomenon betrays not just laziness on the part of those whose very highly paid jobs should require them to do better, but a certain mob consciousness into the bargain. As to Americanisms [see replies 86 & 90], I'm afraid they've permeated British English to such an extent over the past 75 years (there are no doubt a few in this reply) that it's a hopelss task even to identify them all now, let alone to try to push the tide back. Some of us make daily use of 'ok' and 'hopefully', to name but two examples, without really thinking of them as American. Angela, who is a great Facebook devotee, points out that social media is ensuring that it's two-way traffic these days. Plenty of Americans are beginning to ask, for example, why it's sometimes 'center' and sometimes 'centre' and, indeed, why sometimes '-ize' and sometimes '-ise'. They sometimes want to know what is the difference between a lift and an elevator, and so on. The distinction between American and British English will become increasingly blurred - on both sides of the Pond. Having said that, two phrases that have been jarring with me recently are 'train station' and World War One/Two'.
96th REPLY
NAME: Nigel WoodDATE: 28 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
Two verbal fashions which amuse as much as annoy me ... First, the fear of adverbs, which drives many to prefer the circumlocution "I shower on a daily basis" to the plain "I shower daily". The "on a [adjective] basis" formula seems to have become standard, but "Give us this day the bread we hope for on a daily basis." and "Around the rugged rocks the ragged rascal ran his rural race on a regular basis." don't quite do it for me. Second, there's "an annual salary in excess of a hundred thousand pounds per annum" and "a traffic queue in excess of ten miles long" rather than "an annual salary of more than a hundred thousand pounds per annum" and "a traffic queue more than ten miles long". But I've already said in excess of enough.
97th REPLY
NAME: Nigel WoodDATE: 29 September 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1957-64
And another one: 'to second guess'. In the UK it seems often to be used to mean nothing more than 'to guess' as in "I'm not going to second guess what Mr Corbyn is going to say on the occasion of Prince Charles's seventieth birthday.", so the 'second' is redundant. In the US it seems to have quite a different meaning: something like to suggest after the event how different decisions might have given a better outcome. Or have I got this all wrong?
98th REPLY
NAME: James (Jas) Cowen Then & NowDATE: 01 October 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: pupil 56-63
Two particular moans of mine at present are interviewees answering interviewers with 'absolutely' all the time rather than just plain 'yes' and people claiming they will make any amount more than 100% of effort in the future, ranging from 110% right up to 200%.
DATE: 20 October 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1951-58
I am enjoying this thread! I liked Nigel's comments [reply 96] on adverbs. I would have thought the that the last two words in "an annual salary of more than a hundred thousand pounds per annum" were unnecessary! I find too many people feel they have to use a new 'fashionable' word when there are plenty of words already available. 'Absolutely' [reply 98] seems also to have replaced 'certainly'. 'Sophisticated' (originally, among other things, implying artificial enhancement) instead of 'complex', 'highly developed' or 'advanced' seems to get used less these days. One word used incorrectly I find very irritating is 'orchestrate' - a purely musical term - instead of 'plan', 'organise' or 'co-ordinate'. Also something should be 'free', not 'for free'. I recall the O-level english master K H P Bailey complaining about prepositions getting out of hand: "We used to check things, then we checked them up and now we check up on them". There is an amusing column in The Independent on Saturday mornings opposite the letters page, in which the author points out bad grammar or nonsense which has been printed in the paper that week.
100th REPLY
NAME: Nick Dean DATE: 31 October 2015
CONNECTION WITH QE: Pupil 1964-71
At the risk of being re-enhumblised by someone telling me that 'novelisation' was coined in the days of Chaucer, I noted that when Jim Naughtie used this word on the Today programme recently (in respect of an adaptation of Dr Strangelove), he himself remarked, "not the nicest word". Also on Today, Mishal Hussain would have annoyed The Times pedant, Oliver Kamm, with her phrase, "concretely to measure", a usage that would surely put her top of the shortlist if the School Chronicle needed to be re-written. Finally, I read that no less a person that Margaret Thatcher disliked the word 'privatisation' - "a dreadful bit of language to inflict on the language of Shakespeare" (never mind the family silver). This reminded me of an exchange in Yes, Prime Minister when Hacker's PS remarked that something was more honoured in the breach than the observance. Hacker rebuked him for distorting the "most beautiful language ... the language of Shakespeare", drawing, of course, the predictable response. (Hamlet?) Aye, marry is't.